It is easier to cast black women as undesirable – too educated, too black, too … you know those names you keep calling them. But have you ever stopped to analyze the stats? Generally, marriage in the US has considerably dropped for every race … not just for the black woman.
The marriage rate for African Americans has been dropping since the 1960s, and today, we have the lowest marriage rate of any racial group in the United States. In 2001, according to the U.S. Census, 43.3 percent of black men and 41.9 percent of black women in America had never been married, in contrast to 27.4 percent and 20.7 percent respectively for whites. African American women are the least likely in our society to marry. In the period between 1970 and 2001, the overall marriage rate in the United States declined by 17 percent; but for blacks, it fell by 34 percent …
So I guess its safe to say that we are all doomed. Lemme look at this critically:
When I look around, I get to see most black women are single … not alone though. Just single. There is a difference. These women are healthy and wealthy and have boyfriends, friends with benefits, partners or whatever you would like to call them. But when it comes to walking down the aisle, there seems to be an issue … especially for the high-powered, financially stable, well educated black women. Something is holding her back maybe …
May be in the 21st century, most sisters are battling with the thoughts for or against getting married. Maybe circumstances have put marriage out of reach. And as Baz Luhrman puts it in ‘Everybody is free (to wear sunscreen)’ :
Maybe you’ll marry, maybe you won’t,
Maybe you’ll have children, maybe you won’t,
Maybe you’ll divorce at 40,
Maybe you’ll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary…
What ever you do, don’t congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself either
– your choices are half chance, so are everybody else’s.
So just because your race’s stats look much better, or just because you got married, maybe its just luck. I don’t know. Take me for example: When I was in my 20s, I was in no hurry to get married. I mean, who was to do all the travelling, take classes, build my career, date and date and date…? Those were the days when being single was the life and I wouldn’t trade it for the world. It was a choice I had made; not to wait for Prince Charming. Now, I do want to get married. And I just can’t seem to get all those men who used to propose to me in my 20s - when I was least interested - to do it now. Maybe the choice to get married is half chance after all.
Forgetting the stereotypical excuses we coin to try and explain why most black women aren’t married; like lack of good black men, black women are too picky or too mean, I need to find out exactly what the black woman thinks about marriage … from her point of view. Others are also welcome to tell us what they think, but count me out if you step on a sista’s toes 
.
Instead of saying black women can’t get married, maybe we should ask: Do black women really want to get married? Are the single ones single by choice or is the choice to get married really ‘half chance’ as Baz Luhrman puts it?
***HAVE A GREAT 2009 FILLED WITH MUCH LOVE AND HAPPINESS - RIA***
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Comment by laugh_sailor on 9 January 2009:
Thanks Salsassin for your research and excellent assessment. I think you’re quite right and coffee77 and mlt35’s experiences bear this out.
I think cdhill has an excellent point:
“I disagree is with the contention that for African American women, the shortage of (viable - for lack of a better term…) black men is the primary reason for their single-ness. My opinion; many of them are not married because they have made the conscious decision to be single. They take a group (men), which is only nominally smaller than their own and apply a series of selection criteria that diminish or eliminate their remaining options.”
I would take it a step further and say that’s why any of us are single - We don’t yet have what we want and we’re holding out for it.
There are people who are comfortable in their dating rut, though and consequently don’t commit. I think doing so is uncomfortable when comfort is self-centered versus relationship-centered. It’s just my thought but it may have a lot to do with players versus commitment: A perception or lack thereof, of the benefits of life as one half of a two and more to the point, of the synergies involved. Though this is real, it’s universal and independent of the unequal statistics Salsassin in particular has provided us.
Again, it’s just my opinion but given 14.7% (Thanks, Salsassin!) more available black women than available black men, there will be a disproportionate pressure pressure on the choicest black men: Let’s say only 50% of blacks are happily dating or married - That doubles the odds against black women, to a staggering 29.4% more available black women than available black men - The more black men are not available, the much worse it gets for black women.
Comment by Salsassin on 9 January 2009:
Great analysis laugh sailor. And I agree, cdhill made some great points as well.
Comment by 00don on 10 January 2009:
This is a fascinating discussion.
One point that laugh_sailor just touched on but has not been emphasized nor recognized much is the fact that some people simply don’t want to be married, even if they say they do. Their actions and choices prove that they don’t want to be married. The perception of a life as one half of a two is simply not seen as desirable. “Marriage is boring.”
I don’t know. My mother and father are married and seem to have a great time, just as my grandparents did. But when I hear married couples, divorcees or those who are separated complaining, it does give me pause to wonder, “Do I want to give up my happiness living on my own for that?” The jury is still out. (By the way, does one have to be married in order to experience a life as two?)
As a non-degree-holding Black man, the point about education is a troubling one to me. I love to read and learn, however, I have no college degree. Sometimes, I am shamed by that fact. I’ve joked in the past about earning my bachelor’s degree specifically to attract a date. (Hmmm… why do they call it a bachelor’s degree?) I get that education does not necessarily translate to intellect or success, but it would be nice to know that I am not being settled for since I haven’t sat in a classroom for 128 credit hours. I also think it will be fun to have a shiny new vocabulary to sport upon graduation. That benefit alone is incentive enough for me to go back.
So far, it seems that the only path out of this offered is by changing who you see as eligible.
If a person wants to be married, they will be married.
I have no solution. I have no answers, but isn’t there a better way than men and women blaming each other regardless of race?
Comment by NOPLAYER on 10 January 2009:
I know there are good blackmen out there for black women and I hate it when sisters say’ ” I will not lower my standards to hook up with someone”. Who told you you had to ???
I hurts me to hear blk woman say that there’s not too many marriageable blk men. The last time I checked a marriageable blk man was; a single, divorced, widower, of sound mind and legal of age.
When did a college degree, high income, social or fraternal affliations factor in on a blk man being marriageable???
I don’t hear blk men talk like that about sisters.
I often hear sister talk about the need to marry up.
Have they forgotten that many blk men have married sisters that were not on their so called level.
Many blk women’s lives have been upgraded by hard working carpenters, brick layers and mechanics such as myself. Some of us have help put them through college, accepted their children from previous relationships and denied our selves the fruits of our hard work to help inprove their standard of living.
So why do some blk women act as if it’s belittling to marry someone that my not be on their so called level.
No woman should accept a lazy, disrespectful or unfaithful brother for the sake of having a man but don’t act as if you are better than a hard working, faithful and dedicated man.
You may want to talk with Hispanic, Asian, and White women and find out what it is that they recognizes in these brothers that you have yet to see.
I don’t think these women have had to lower their standards to find love and hapiness with the very men you claim that are hard to find.
It’s easy to site the statistics about the high numbers of us in prison, gay, on drugs, unemployeed and you can even blame interracial dating but look deep with in and ask yourself this critical question, ” IS IT ME ” ?
Check yourself or stay by yourself!!
I hope I didn’t offend any of my sisters but I wanted to incite deep thought and introspection, so forgive me if I hurt anyones feelings.
Love and be loved!
Comment by mlt35 on 11 January 2009:
Thank you 00don. I appreciate your comment about being a non-degree holding black man….we love you too. Unfortunately often times we find that there are just not enough COMMITTED men in our own race and by expanding our dating pool we expand our opportunity of meeting the right one for us. Love really is blind. It seems that alot of the messages on this blog are about the black woman being too picky and why not lower your standards to find love. Actually, finding men is not difficult at all….however men that are really available and trying to play women in cyber space while they really have a wife or committed relationship etc. is what keeps many black women from finding love it is the player man that makes it hard for the good men. Many women who have attained formal education in no way look down on any man who does not have formal education. Many times I find sexy the hardworking non-exec. with a passion for his own contracting business for example or the man who did not finish his undergrad but has gone on the be productive and successful and be a positve member of our society. We are all made of different backgrounds, experiences and I honestly do not think that the majority of educated black women look down on any man who does not have the same level of education. Ladies please share your view on this topic as well. To me formal education shows me that he can finish a real goal, he is disciplined and has a skill which he may be passionate about going to work and work in a specific field that he has planned, pursued and achieved. It is more about confidence, character building, drive, tenacity, over coming adversity to me.
I do have to say that there are situations when I have dated a man who did not have a degree and he was sooo insecure about himself or makes obvius comments about feeling inadequate that it makes a woman who is formally educated feel uncomfortable and one winds up stopping her own personal growth because she does not want to make the man feel bad about not having education.. Sometimes people of like interests, goals, and needs will naturally migrate to and find one another.
Many non-degreed men earn far more income than degreed me so a degree versus non- degree is not the real issue. Having goals with a plan for his future and yours and a man who really is COMMITTED is what I desire.
Remember…belief determines reality.
God Bless.
Comment by mlt35 on 11 January 2009:
00don,
Do not ever be ashamed of the beautiful black man that God made you. Hold your head up and any woman see your heart if you genuinely are interested in a commited relationship women will measure your ACTIONS not your WORDS….. Also, yes, formal education opens doors and can often provide opportunities to the black man in particular that would not be open to you where many times the doors would be wide open for a white man with or without a degree. Lets be real here. I have learned that in a white dominated westernized society here in the USA, it is far easier to just play their game. Get in the door and then show them who 00don really is and what you the man is made of from the inside. Our society is what it is and just giving them what they want is often the best way and then adapt a job to your peronality once you get in the interview. Unfortunately, if you do not have a degree of some kind your application/resume’ goes straight in the trash can because sooooo many other applicants did take the time to go to college/university so that when they sit across from an interviewer are actually qualified for the job because they have studied for 4- 12 years in order to learn about the position and come to the table ready to share with an employer and help them to achieve their goals whereas many times people without a degree really do not even know what they do not know…..so why fight the process, go and get the degree and then when you sit down across from the interviewer you have tangible situations as to how you will be best for a postition. For example, in a class you may have been apart of a team developing a new technology or developing business model that the company can adapt and you become VALUABLE to them.
Please take no offense at my unasked advice but I felt compelled to be supportive of you and to say never be ashamed of who God made you. You are beautiful (inside).
P.S. Even if you have not attained a degree but are taking classes, it is also very positive to add to your resume that you are “currently pursuing a B.S. in X”. Employers love to see that your are on the continuum of education and often will get an interview because you are advancing yourself. Go to the interview to help the company solve problems and be able to support your ideas.
Remember belief determines reality. Shoot for your dreams and surround yourself with POSITIVE people in the field that you desire and study and read independent so that the interviewer will be ready for you not the other way around:):):):).
God Bless,
M
Comment by cdhill on 11 January 2009:
“we find that there are just not enough COMMITTED men in our own race…”
huh? lol.
Commitment this does not have anything do do with race.
When a (any) man is noncommittal, he is noncommittal one woman at a time.
EVERY man has the capacity to commit.
EVERY man has the ability to be faithful, honest, decent, monogamist and true.
When a man decides to be something other than than faithful, honest, decent, monogamist or true its not because of race.
Its because for him, that particular woman is not the one he wants to treat that way.
The converse demonstrates this.
We have all seen that when a man decides that he has found “THE ONE” all of a sudden he’s a different man. He stops all that childish behavior. He brings he “A” game.
Ladies: If after meeting you, man after man successively refuses, fails or otherwise declines to present his “A” game or when you find consecutive men will date you but (the group as a whole or in part) unanimously reject the idea of marrying you, blaming all men is a cop out and race is least of your problems.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 11 January 2009:
I would like to address the following comment made by CDHILL above:
“Its because for him, that particular woman is not the one he wants to treat that way.”
I agree this is not an issue of race. I think the underlying issue with men whom embrace this ideology is a lack of character and maturity. Character should be engrained and is as natural as breathing. Character does not discriminate with treating a woman special only because the man has something to gain personally otherwise the man justifies his actions of not giving his best simply because you are not the “one”. You are confused to say the least.
Comments of this nature, reflect what many women have understood for ages which is many of our men are still playing in the sand box of life which does not provide a good incentive for marriage. Many men continue to approach women as if they are in a candy store rather than searching for a partner who has substance and depth and who can weather the storms of life.
I know this sounds boring and unromantic and not very titilating to say the least. Let’s face it, I have not found a very good reason to want to be married based on these discussions. I still see the common sense and maturity factor lacking here.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 11 January 2009:
Ok. Sweetp31. The underlying issue with both Halle’s marriages, based on what i’ve read…. immaturity and lack of character. It’s not a black or white thing. It’s about being a “real” man and not a BOY. I think the mark of a man is when he can marry above himself or his equal. I consider our new President Elect acknowledges the fact he married at least “his equal”. He has a great deal of respect and admiration for Michelle. On the other hand, The sign of INsecurity is when a man marries simply to maintain that “allusion” of control. For some black men, this is manifested in many cases by marrying women far beneath them or pursuing women outside the race (simply) to prove something and it has a little to do with loving that person.
Comment by cdhill on 11 January 2009:
You are 1000% correct.
It is about character and maturity but it not about race.
You wrote, “Character should be ingrained and as natural as breathing.”
Again. You are right on target. This is how it should be. But we both know the reality of the situation. And the reality is the same regardless of skin color.
“Character does not discriminate…”
True.
But a lack of character does.
And again, this is not impacted by race.
Your base argument:
“Many men continue to approach women as if they are in a candy store rather than searching for a partner who has substance and depth and who can weather the storms of life.”
demonstrates a one dimensional of understanding of men.
Man meets Woman.
She’s the one. Man acts right. Man gets married.
Or she’s not the one.
If Man has character he moves on.
If Man doesn’t have character, he behaves unethically.
And frankly, man may behave differently from situation to situation.
And I hear what you are saying.
In a perfect world, during the search for a partner men would be mature, honest and forthright. But sweetheart, we don’t live there. We live here.
Wanting everyone to have high character and hold themselves to a higher standard is romantic. But its not realistic. Asserting that as a result of ethnicity some men can not behave ethically or maturely is racist.
Do Men from time to time behave unethically? Absolutely. Would the world be a better place if men were always mature? Certainly.
But the other side of the equation (the one that sistah’s miss most often) is this:
(Consider this analogy:)
If someone gets fired from 10 jobs in 10 months it could be an employer conspiracy but it’s probably not. At some point it might behoove that employee to look in the mirror.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 11 January 2009:
I think you need to broaden yourself by getting more education. It is apparent you have limited capacity to appreciate the full scope of this discussion and I think you are out of your league. I think anytime we have an unsuccessful endeavor (i.e. job, relationship), if we wish to grow personally, it requires us to evaluate oneself. Point understood. I think it difficult to determine with whom your dealing simply because of the “games” people play. At a certain stage in life, one must grow up and stop playing “games” and start thinking critically and making sound decisions. References to “A” game only reinforces my belief there is a maturity factor lacking on the dating scene. When you think like a “boy” you behave like a “boy”. Conversation closed.
Comment by homesteader on 11 January 2009:
We raced to the finish line , the Trophey is commitment to one another . It takes two that want to be together . Education , money , color of skin and employment status have nothing to do with people who truly wish to Love each other . If is the biggest word in life and We is how a relationship will grow .
Comment by homesteader on 11 January 2009:
And there are many people not married in this United States as it is choice not numbers being the reason we marry .
Comment by cdhill on 11 January 2009:
Nothing illustrates a weak argument more effectively than a personal attack.
CDHill, BBA.MBA.
Comment by mlt35 on 11 January 2009:
Thank you VA_ Songbird,
The man in the mirror comments I agree are immature and ill informed based upon the statistics alone and alot of men are really out of their league which also supports part of the argument ….there really is nothing more to say about the subject to me. I appreciate your comments as well sweetp31. Formal degrees without a mature, evolved point in life is behavior of a “boy” and not a man. Case in point being the mature and evolved comments made by Salsasina and Glock for example which aren’t even black men!!!!….Funny that they man in the mirror is one of our own.
We are all here to express our feelings and experiences and yes as many of the black women on this blog have dated black men and non-black men may have also noticed a disparing difference in the level of COMMITMENT, level of maturity, and know some non-black men know how to treat a lady. Even open your car door for example allow you to walk on the inside when walking down the street for example and generally love, admire and respect you. I do not see this behavior by the majority of black men that I have dated. This is reality my dear not fantasy and you better believe real men know how to treat a lady, no sense in wasting time with the riff raff. Many times our men are angry, hostile and disrespectful and then have commitment issues on top of not really treating you very well and want to try to place the blame on individual women when in reality the statistics do not lie. I am painting with a broad brush, but this has been my experience. Also, quite to the contrary I have had some of the most beautiful diamond engagement rings that you have ever seen from both black and white men, so…….the issue again is the lack of COMMITTMENT from our Black men in particular and many who game play and act like little boys who are irresponsible males.
Isn’t this a dating site for white men seeking black women or black men seeking….white women for example ( Interrracial dating) ….maybe he is on the wrong website all together. Let the people who the site is designed to attract share experiences and maybe the other ill informed men can learn.
Remember….belief determines reality.
God Bless
Comment by sweetp31 on 11 January 2009:
MLT35……….AMEN MY SISTER!!!
Comment by cdhill on 11 January 2009:
I think song bird’s comments exemplifies my position.
Her profile said “Graduate Degree”
Mine said, “Some College”
She saw that what my profile says and immediately the black woman attacks and belittles the black man because of his lack of education.
Truth is,
I do have some education (college), “some more” than most people. “Some less” than others.
Now, I got me some mo edjumacashun!
Is that the only thing it takes for my position to have credibility? Hmmm.
I think that some men are immature and have a definite lack of character.
And at the same time, (whether they agree or not) some women, have issues, criteria and attitude that would ever preclude them from obtaining or sustaining a successful relationship, regardless of race.
I also think this is a good place for this conversation to close.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 11 January 2009:
I second that! MLT35………. I agree we are all entitled to our opinion.
There is no relationship to CDHill’s education/intelligence as documented in his comments.
Thank you for informing us of your degrees. However, true Education is reflected more so in how one thinks, lives and articulate oneself and not the mere fact of just holding a piece of paper.
I think you are raining on our parade here. This space is to meet other singles of different ethnic backgrounds. We want some “cream” in our coffee.
Comment by salsera77 on 11 January 2009:
Oh, Thank Goodness you said it, VA_SongBird. Thank You,
ever so much. Whew! It bears repeating.
“This space is to meet other singles of different ethnic backgrounds. We want some “CREAM” in our coffee.”
Comment by cdhill on 11 January 2009:
Sorry about the rain.
Could someone pass the cream please? lol.
Comment by homesteader on 12 January 2009:
I like my coffee Black
Comment by homesteader on 12 January 2009:
Got my street smarts on the highways as a Transportation Engineer , and it helped pay to put my two daughters through college / They being the ones with Degrees .
Comment by homesteader on 12 January 2009:
And very proud to say they bring me , New underwear and socks for X-mas , then say “We Love you Dad “
Comment by big C on 12 January 2009:
SALASSIN, FIRST I AM ALL MAN, IT IS MY COMPUTER I TYPE THE WAY I WANT TO.
YOUR JUST A WEAK WHITE BOY TRYING TO GET BLACK WOMEN TO GIVE YOU A TRY, MAN UP AND GET THEM ON YOUR OWN, NOT BY TELL THEM THE NUMBERS SAY….THEY SMART THEN THAT!!!!
Comment by NOPLAYER on 12 January 2009:
I get tired of hearing women talking about blackmen having committment issues. It only becomes an issue when a guy wont committ to them, now all of us have committment issues ?????
We know who we want to committ to and who we don’t.
Ladies how many of you know of a woman that was in a relationship with a guy 4 or 5 years and he never married her but when they broke up he started a relationship with another woman and married her in less than a year?
Black women are not the victims here, many are single because they want to be single and some just don’t choose to marry. Some of them have their own issues : too many heartbreaks, control issues, self sabatoge, and who knows what else?
There are good men out their for these sisters, ask white women, hispanic women and asian women because many of then have no trouble finding what many sister cant seem to find and that a good, hard working, faithful and caring BLACKMAN, yeah I said!!!
Comment by NOPLAYER on 12 January 2009:
I get tired of hearing women talking about blackmen having committment issues. It only becomes an issue when a guy wont committ to them, now all of us have committment issues ?????
We know who we want to committ to and who we don’t.
Ladies how many of you know of a woman that was in a relationship with a guy 4 or 5 years and he never married her but when they broke up he started a relationship with another woman and married her in less than a year?
Black women are not the victims here, many are single because they want to be single and some just don’t choose to marry. Some of them have their own issues : too many heartbreaks, control issues, self self-estemm issues, and who knows what else?
There are good men out their for these sisters, ask white women, hispanic women and asian women because many of then have no trouble finding what many sister cant seem to find and that a good, hard working, faithful and caring BLACKMAN, yeah I said it!!!
Comment by coffee77 on 12 January 2009:
I thought this conversation was over, but I just felt compelled to address a comment made earlier today. Big C calling Salassin “a weak white boy” is so unnecessary and uncalled for. He has just as much right to address this issue as anyone else. His interest in black women is fine with me and I assure you the majority, if not all, black women here feel the same. The comments of white men are more than welcome here!
Comment by mlt35 on 12 January 2009:
Not a black man attacking black woman blog but a blog where
white men were sharing their genuine feelings about how special that they feel black women are to THEM, the love, respect, commitment, humor, and interest that some white men feel for black women. How good does that make you feel ladies?
How often do our own men tell us that they feel that we are special? I find that with white guys who are genuine you see it in their eyes when you catch glancing at you, his smile, when his cheeks get red and he is almost embarrased to even think of approaching you but musters up enough courage after an inviting smile to just say hello and you feel from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet that this man is one to at least say hello and maybe just maybe see where it goes. Not the usual slimy, disingenuine, heah baby that alot of black guys give because they are so cocky , arrogant and know that if one woman won’t another women will so why treat you with any respect. Sadly we do not hear it enough. It is sad to see both black men started making personal attacks to black women that do not know, never met and will not know is sad.
It is obvious to me that alot of black men are rightly threatened by the white men who have expressed themselves on the blog because they know that these are the calibre and quality of white guy that attracts their black queens away from them, so there angle is to try and say negative , crazy things about black women to try and sabotage us from having any happiness since alot of us may never date them again.
Remember belief determines reality.
This is an interracial blog and I do not know about you, but I would enjoy hearing from some new members or at least some
Comment by mlt35 on 12 January 2009:
Not a black man attacking black woman blog but a blog where:
white men were sharing their genuine feelings about how special that they feel black women are to THEM, the love, respect, commitment, humor, and interest that some white men feel for black women. How good does that make you feel ladies?
How often do our own men tell us that they feel that we are special? I find that with white guys who are genuine you see it in their eyes when you catch them glancing at you, his smile, when his cheeks get red and he is almost embarrased to even think of approaching you but musters up enough courage after an inviting smile to just say hello and you feel from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet that this man is one to at least say hello and maybe just maybe see where it goes. Not the usual slimy, disingenuine, heah baby that alot of black guys give because they are so cocky , arrogant and know that if one woman won’t another women will so why treat you with any respect. Sadly we do not hear it enough. It is sad to see both black men started to make personal attacks to black women that do not know, never met and will not know is sad.
It is obvious to me that alot of black men are rightly threatened by the white men who have expressed themselves on the blog because they know that these are the calibre and quality of white guys that attract their black queens away from them, so there angle is to try and say negative, crazy things about black women to try and sabotage us from having any happiness since alot of us may never date them again since if they can’t have us no one will.
Remember belief determines reality.
This is an interracial blog and I do not know about you, but I would enjoy hearing from some new members or at least some
Comment by VA_SongBird on 12 January 2009:
I have to agree with MLT35 on the point, that white men exhibit a certain tenderness toward women which we don’t experience much from our black men. For example, I work next to a white male colleague. He calls his wife every day just to see how her day is going. I’ve never heard him once speak in an unkind or impatient tone to his wife. I think because many black men have lacked good examples of manhood it is difficult for them to express themselves in this way, although we black women crave the same love and respect. I think we need to tear down the walls of racial differences and learn from each other so we all can enjoy rewarding relationships.
Comment by 32bookworm on 12 January 2009:
Putting aside religion for the moment, statistics support marriage (i.e. healthy marriages) is better overall for most people. Married people are healthier, both physically and emotionally, wealthier, and live longer. I think the jury is out as to the overwhelming benefits children get from two parent households. Not to mention as a Christian, it’s the right thing to do.
A lot factors come into play as to why Black women do not marry as often. It’s a very complicated issue with no definite answers. Personally, I think paying attention to these depressing statistics is counterproductive in my search for my soul mate. Black women deal with a lot of stresses that are unique to our position in society. Preserving a healthy mental attitude and a positive outlook about myself is one of the ways I deal with it. I would not trade my single 20’s for marriage if I could. I learned so much about myself during that decade. I am a much better person for it.
Comment by homesteader on 13 January 2009:
coffee , Thank you I am pale white . Reading the comments on this Blog , I see a Ladie who in her 20’s was desirable and she broke some hearts when she was asked to wed and said ” No ” , now age has placed it’s mark on her and nobody wants an older tease - Amen . I also see an insurance agent who talks numbers . In days of old when men were bold , they would ask a Ladie if she cared to dance , open a door for her or bring her a cold drink on a hot day . I myself took many a girl to a picture show or drive-in theatre . Sex came after marriage , oh how times have changed . Please do me a favor Ladies sit down and write the ten most wanted things you require in your future husband / then re-read them imagining it is him writing the ten most wanted things he is seeking in a wife . See if you measure up . I asked my wife to marry me online , never having met her and she replied in the affirmative . We seem to be very very very Happy Together . It is called Love which brings us to Smile .
Comment by homesteader on 13 January 2009:
And it takes two willing to give 100% inorder to find that which we seeked . I have a question : how many of you that are commenting on this blog actually desire marriage ? Cause I see a bunch of insensitive players. Who talk talk talk and have nothing to say . and you know of who I speak .
Comment by homesteader on 13 January 2009:
To answer a question , why this white man came here . It is because it was a dating service with Women to talk to , if you look close enough there are all colors and races here along with Pretty Ladies from all around the world . We were successful in our pursuit , mainly because action truly speaks louder than words . Marriage was the topic of conversation at the top of page , not how many we dated and are still friends with . Get with the program , learn to understand what you read , Thank you .
Comment by laugh_sailor on 13 January 2009:
Thanks Homesteader for keeping decorum, respect and the big picture present - You’ve got a wonderful spirit and I’m happy you’ve found your love - It’s a special treat to have your example of how we can find love here, as well.
Comment by homesteader on 13 January 2009:
Ladies , what I see here is take a number from many players . I wish all Sweet Dreams in this 009 . If you watch you will see the players - very easy to spot they show their true colors and I am not speaking of Race . I am speaking of attitudes if you truly wish to find one serious I would look to others .
Comment by homesteader on 13 January 2009:
thank you laugh sailor , my journeys thru life were on the Interstates .
Comment by cdhill on 13 January 2009:
I’d like to propose another possible hypothesis:
Perhaps the reason marriage has declined so sharply for African American women is because (instead of having to few or no options as claimed,) African American women are the group of women that men find the least desirable in terms of marriage.
As the original blog asserts, marriage rates are down overall and it is precipitously down for black women.
And as sister’s here have so eloquently stated, they would not choose many African America men because:
“They don’t have good role models.”, “They are spoiled.”, “They aren’t kind, sensitive or loving.” “They won’t commit”, “They are like kids in a candy store.”
And the remaining African American men who are viable attractive candidates aren’t choosing to marry them.
In additional interracial marriages are not trending upwards in a fashion that would counter the downward trend with brothers. In fact, for various reasons, most white men can’t or won’t marry a sister. In the U.S. only 1% of white men marry someone not of their race (not of their race includes all other ethnicities.)
When you do the math, ( the black husband/white wife) combination outnumbers the (white husband/black wife) combination 2 to 1 according to the US census bureau. So really en masse there is no group of men forming a line to marry sistas.
Now a lot of comments here have proposed a lot of thought why black men don’t want to marry:
Again: “They don’t have good role models.”, “They are spoiled.”, “They aren’t kind, sensitive or loving.” “They won’t commit”, “They are like kids in a candy store.”
But in this hypothesis, according to statistics, sisters as a group would seem to have larger problems.
Most white men don’t want to marry them. By the numbers, Asians or Hispanics don’t either.
Are they driven by the same issues as brothers?
Maybe. Perhaps. I honestly don’t know.
But if this hypothesis is correct and as a group black women are less desirable than other women in terms of marriage; our African American sisters can ill afford to waste valuable time concerning themselves with the faults and failings of others as those faults and failings are red herrings.
Comment by brerrabit on 13 January 2009:
Well, as I am a white man I cannot comment on why ‘black men don’t want to marry’, even if that is more than just a generality. On that topic, all I can talk about is what I have heard expressed from women of color that I have known. Keeping in mind that this is not a representative example but rather just women that I have come into contact with during my life, the majority of them state that black men do not treat them with the respect that white men have.
Two things to keep in mind about the women that have shared this with me: 1) the majority of them are at least open to the idea of marriage and 2) most - not all - of them are already interested in dating interracially. What does that mean? Honestly, I don’t know except to say that in our culture we expect certain things from different groups of people. If you are interested in marriage, you are expected to treat people you might marry accordingly, usually with large degree of tenderness and closeness. And, perhaps unfortunately, our society seems to think that if you are a black man, you should also act according to societies view of a black man. Which, while being a strong individual, is not supposed to be tender. In my experience, women - especially those who are looking at long term commitments - like to be treated tenderly.
Our society also does not place a large value on the idea of marriage, which I think is unfortunate. I think that marriage is desirable and, when you marry the right person, not only brings out the better traits in each other but makes the two of you stronger than either would be individually.
I have dated women of all races and I admit that I joined this site because I find black women particularly desirable. I wish I could tell you exactly why I feel that way but I cannot. It is not just because of their complexion, although I do find darker complected women attractive. It is something more than that and I think if those of you who also seriously date interracially (and not because they wish to try something “new”) were truly honest with yourselves, I think you would find that you cannot truly pinpoint why you date interracially. It is tempting to say that it is because they are white/black/hispanic/asian/whatever because it is easy to do so but I think the truth is something deeper.
My advice to those of you looking to marry - whether male, female, white, black, whatever - is to stay true to yourself and what you want. Don’t bow to societal views of what you should be, where you should be or whom you should date. Be open to what you want, look inside other people, and you will find the mate you are looking for.
Just so you know where I am coming from, I joined this site because I do find women of color beautiful and have since found on this site and married a wonderful woman of Jamaican descent. She is everything I have been looking forward and so many things I never knew that I wanted. Be true to yourself, be open and keep looking. You may find more than you expected for yourself as well.
Be well and God bless
Comment by mlt35 on 13 January 2009:
Thank you brerrabit! Glad to hear that you are one of the lucky ones:)
Again…..if they cannot have us no one can, so try to drag the black women down in the ground with the reputation that black men have created all on their own….lack of commitment….black women as a group do not have this problem….can we get some more cream in our coffee:):):) All others just need to go and be with the opposite group that they seek and leave the rest of us that are being positive and supportive and not personal attacks and negative to communicate in peace.
Pleeeeease.
Have a great day!!
Remember….belief determines reality.
Comment by kathugga on 14 January 2009:
Hmm,
I read most (skipped a few) of the comments here and found the whole thing interesting. It’s a topic where there’s right and wrong answers on both sides.
Myself, I’ve dated outside my race more than in it, prefer brown skin (tan on up to dark brown) over pale, have had better relationships except one (err, the one I divorced) with women outside my own race, and prefer to date outside my race.
Have children? So do I. Go to church as more than a once a week Christian? So do I an my son. Err, wait, yah, I have a son. What do you mean you don’t want a man with children? sigh, NEXT!!!
I have to admit that after my divorce I find myself a bit gun shy, especially in person as opposed to oh, say, here, meeting someone and dating, with the intention of finding someone who wants to be married. There have been times where I’ve considered that maybe it would be better to just stay single and raise my son than worry about a relationship and it’s very likely that many women with children think the same way. But, I’ve realized that is not how we are meant to be. God made us to be partners, one man and one woman (and for those of you who disagree with THAT, pfffft!) in marriage creating and/or raising a family together.
Now as for the eligble part. hmm. Perhaps, ok, we DO make our standards too high sometimes. Me personally, I’d love to marry someone who looks like Tyra Banks or Alicia Keyes (you reading this tyra? Alicia?) but who has a personality like a lady at one of jobs. Too bad she’s a couple years older than my mom. err, not tyra. she’s younger than me. Oh yah, she has to be able to cook and love kids too. And go to church. Baptist is good, Seventh-day Adventist better (me). Also to work out, enjoy camping hiking and fishing, winter, snow, watching movies. I’ve given up on the whole marrying a rich nympho thing. It’s NOT the best thing, so a normal sex drive please.
Education isn’t really an issue as long as the woman isn’t dumb or stupid. I’d like to be able to talk to her and share ideas with her.
MMM, I like micro-braids too. and pierced navels. sigh. mmmmm, pieeerced navellls, mmmmmm.
the reality is, that unless tyra or Alicia happens to be reading this (umm, if any one knows them . . .), the real woman I meet will really not mind that I have sole custody of my son, will accept him and love him as her own whether or not she children like I would be to hers, and won’t mind being an “instant mom” if she doesn’t have any. Hopefully she’ll be able to cook wit something other than a microwave, and we can spend time in the kitchen together experimenting. Hmm, this one is NOT an exception! she must cook with something other than a microwave! and no, I don’t mind stretch marks and baby pooches. pouches. baby fat.
I wonder how many women who are single and not liking it have some unrealistic ideas of the ideal man. See, I decided to not be like either my father OR my step dad. One was lazy, the other abusive. While I won’t say I fantasized about the perfect dad, I did see good examples from friends parents and yes, some tv dads.
I’m not rich materially, probably won’t ever be unless I win lotto and they tell me you have to actually BUY a ticket to win that. I do plan, however on being comfortable financially. Which I understand is what the rich call being rich. That’s why I went to school to be a personal trainer and hope to add some other certifications to that. and then finish my bachelors in history and political science and maybe even my theology degree. and I might add exercise science and sports physiology to the mix. Depends. but I do want to finish at least my history ba and add exercise science.
People cannot complain they don’t get a mate cause they are too fat or too skinny (especially men!) and you can’t even say too ugly–tho I maybe can accept too beautiful (the whole intimidation thing). There’s someone for everyone out there.
But, those of us who are single and not liking it, need to wonder why, because it’s something personal about us. I might be attracted to you cause you look great by my standards but if you pick your nose in public (even when you think no one is watching) you’re gone. sorry. I can live with snoring too. If all you care about is how your hair looks or it looks like you went to the Tammy Faye Baker School of Cosmotology you’re gone. I have to have some standards. Bad teeth? ok. Nobody and no body is perfect, but let’s face it, there is something about all of us that can turn someone off as fast as something else turns them on. Usually it’s a personality thing. Sometimes physical, but usually personality that i’ve noticed.
To throw out a little philosophy at you, Socrates said “An unexamined life is not worth living.” EVERYONE should write that down and put it on at least one wall, preferably two, one at home and one at work to remind themselves to take a step back from time to time to see what they have been doing, what they are doing and what they are going to be doing with their lives and make the necessary changes. and be yourself.
I realize that I maybe am a bit more flippant than some of you who commented here, and I maybe wandered a bit, which I tend to do sometimes, but the reason people are single even if they say otherwise is themselves.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 14 January 2009:
Ladies please don’t take someone’s attacking “YOUR POINT” as attacking you personally, when you express your veiws on a broad people are supposed to attack your veiws if they disagree with you and they should do it in a respectful and intelligent manner.
I have no problem with sisters dating men of other ethnic groups, by all means, “receive love from where you find it” .
What I have a problem with is the generalizations about blackmen being expressed, such as we’re ie ; non-committal, unfaithful, insecure, controling and many more! You can find these characteristics in men of other ethnicities as well.
It’s none of my business who you date but when you start trashing blackmen I take issue with that and I will speak out on that, not out of anger but out of the spirit of trying to reason togehter and bring about understanding.
VA_SongBird not all but far too many blackmen do have problems expressing feelings of love and tenderness.
Keep in mind that many of us have not lived a very comfortable and cushioned life and as a means of survival we’ve had to be very tough because life has been a “No Holds Bared” fight for many of us.
I would hope that you or other sisters would not think that blackmen don’t love you or want you.
We love you very much and many of us love you sitting in prison because we foolishly thought that by selling drugs and having money we could do for you what our limitted educations and job skills could’nt.
We’ve beat up, cut up and shot up eachother over you. Some have even murdered eachother, not over white or hispanic women but over you (Black Woman)!
Yeah it’s wrong and it’s misguided but so many saw so much in you that they risked death and prison in hopes of winning your love and admiration, now that’s crazy love, I’m talking mad love. LOL
As black men we have issues that we must deal with and we’re not WHOLE by any means but niether are you!
What do two hurt people look like tearing down eachother for acting out the hurt that they feel?
It’s ok if you chose not to date me but you dont have to dog me!
Love and be loved !
Comment by mlt35 on 14 January 2009:
Thank you Noplayer for putting a real tender face to some of the underlying problems that black men face and may want our love and respect but sometimes have made past bad choices in life that limit them from reaching certain women sometimes….we are afraid to take a chance on that type of crazy love….at least without some real therapy:) in order to uncover what is really going on, We are the same strong, loving and nurturung women like your moms (assuming she was a good mom) who will stand by, and beside our men as long as we feel he will do the same for us in return with no games or foolishness. It would be to lovely bring both black man and black woman back together again. Would love to see the next generatons of our youth find the love that my black parents back in the day:):
One can only hope and pray.
Thank you for your positive, kind words.
Have a wonderful day!
Belief determines reality.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 14 January 2009:
Mlt35 as long as we are willing to open our hearts and minds in an attemp to understands eachother’s issues and not become judgemental and self righteous then there’s hope for black marriages not just for the next generation but in our own gerneration.
Despite all the trash that’s thrown on us as blackmen in music, movies and magazines I do’nt harbor ill feelings towards our women because I understand their disappointment and fustrations.
The mere fact that they put such passion in thrashing us proves that they’re fustrated as hell and they’re crying out and some are acting out because of their fustrated desires to be loved and respected by us.
In any relationship as long as you are arguing and debating the issues, that means there’s still a desire to work things out. When you no longer care to even talk about the problem, then the beginnibg of the end is imminent.
Reading the heated responses on this board between us (blk men & blk women) makes me very hopeful.
We both love and want eachother, we just run into problems trying stay together but that can be worked out.
If all else fails, listen to “Lets Stay Together” by AL Green 6 times a day and pray about! LOL !!!
Love and be loved!!!!
Comment by Salsassin on 14 January 2009:
To cdhill
Interesting hypothesis. I’d like to propose a third one; that all these factors play a role. I was walking down the street yesterday and I saw a woman with gold teeth, overweight, with a get up that was masculine, spitting in the street. I also saw a woman that was overcaked with make up, overly dressed talking way to loud and exuding attitude in everything she did. Later on I saw a woman who was a true queen. Classy in her dress, demure in her speech, and her walk was sheer elegance. I was walking with my Dominican friend and we had been talking about my experiences in this blog. (This is the Dominican friend that got married to a White guy, then divorced him when she came to the US and found out he was prejudiced against Blacks. She doesn’t consider herself Black, but she is proud of being part Black.)
She stated that many Dominicans do not want to identify with African Americans because they can be loud and crass. The first two women were both examples of this. The third was an example of how stereotypes are just that, assumptions, on limited experience, extended to a much larger group. African Americans come in all educational and class levels (as in being classy, not in a caste sense). But like history, where wars stick out in the mind of a historian more than times of peace, the rotten apples, tend to make the whole apple basket look bad.
I think you are partially right, that the crass loud confrontational women have given many men a hesitancy of dating African American women. Most other ethnic groups just do not see it as very feminine. In contrast, a man can be a lot cruder, and he is still seen as masculine. So crassness and attitude can be a lot more forgiven, by the female gender. And in fact, some women see it as an example of hyper-maleness.
That would explain a partial disparity between AA women and men. ADD to this the historical trend of African American women sticking by their men’s side much more. (All you have to do is listen to the chatter on message boards when an AA woman dates outside the group, vs. when a AA man does it.). Add to this the sheer numeric disparity and other factors already mentioned here and they all add up to create a disadvantage in African American women and the intra-ethnic dating circle.
But, I forget who coined the expression, “The silent majority”, and I do not really know if they are majority or not, as they do tend to be less vocal, there is a vast number of African Americans who are very educated, very classy and do not exude unnecessary attitude.
Don’t get me wrong; much of that attitude comes from historical abuses of the past. A cornered person learns to lash back. There have even been studies of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder at the societal level for African Americans (as well as Native Americans).
But I digress, from the African American populations that have either had more education and/or just a good decent upbringing from the family (Church, community values, etc), you still have many women, and men who have to deal with both the good and the bad in their community and they may look at the larger dating field. (Again, remember that war is remembered more than peace). So it is easy to see why some African Americans would see the grass greener on the other side. (You see the positives, but ignore the negatives).
I keep on hearing here that either White women treat Black men with more respect, or that White men treat Black women with more respect.
I offer this supplementary hypothesis. One, Men that date outside their ethic group are already prone to admiration of those qualities they see outside their group. They have also had to overcome stigmas from their own groups, so they are a lot more willing to compromise than the average person in their group. They may treat their new partners better than they treated people from their own group because they are going into relationships expecting some friction/differences, so they are already willing to do more sacrifices. In the case of women, they are willing to take a lot more from AA men, because they already have been exposed to the stereotypes, and they are still choosing to venture into that dating pool. (And remember, there is a surplus in the White woman population as well). SO yes, they may be more accommodating to their AA partners than the average AA woman, or indeed the average White American woman would be.
On the other hand, because, as we have stated, many of the stereotypes applied to AA groups are on the negative side, and they are much more damaging to an image of femininity than they are to an image of masculinity, it will create a much larger hesitancy for non AA men to date AA women, no matter how beautiful they may be. That is probably also why you see a trend to date Afro-Latina, Afro-Caribbean, and even African, a lot quicker. But when a White man is willing to overcome the stereotypes, and realizes the huge diversity in Afro-Americana, he has already made huge leaps and changes in his mentality. So unless he is one of those men who are just seeking a fetish fix (in which case crassness would not scare him off, he just wants sex), the White male who enters the AA woman dating pool is already a different man than the average White male. And will probably treat their women in a level that is much more accommodating than the average AA male, or indeed, average White male. Of course remember that as the novelty wears off, if the guy is a bad person he will revert to type, or if he is a good person, that will stay present.
Just some ongoing thoughts that are not finalized but have been mulling in my head, a work in progress on inter ethnic relations (Inter ethnic conflict and relationships was my major in college).
To NOPLAYER
I agree with your over all assessment. I do think it is valid to talk of trends though. We just have to make sure we don’t overgeneralize or stereotype the entire group.
Not all Black men where pants below their butt and not all White men wear jeans so tight they look like gloves. But you can say there is a trend for both of them in subcultures in the US. And a trend to do similar things in sub groups from the cross culture (White people who love hip hop, Jamaican men and glove jeans, for example) But the trends are still valid to be mentioned.
Comment by starthai on 14 January 2009:
“To cdhill
Interesting hypothesis. I’d like to propose a third one; that all these factors play a role. I was walking down the street yesterday and I saw a woman with gold teeth, overweight, with a get up that was masculine, spitting in the street. I also saw a woman that was overcaked with make up, overly dressed talking way to loud and exuding attitude in everything she did. Later on I saw a woman who was a true queen. Classy in her dress, demure in her speech, and her walk was sheer elegance. I was walking with my Dominican friend and we had been talking about my experiences in this blog. (This is the Dominican friend that got married to a White guy, then divorced him when she came to the US and found out he was prejudiced against Blacks. She doesn’t consider herself Black, but she is proud of being part Black.)
She stated that many Dominicans do not want to identify with African Americans because they can be loud and crass. The first two women were both examples of this. The third was an example of how stereotypes are just that, assumptions, on limited experience, extended to a much larger group. African Americans come in all educational and class levels (as in being classy, not in a caste sense). But like history, where wars stick out in the mind of a historian more than times of peace, the rotten apples, tend to make the whole apple basket look bad.”
Salsassin, I don’t get what you are stating here. I’ve observed very loud Latina women and loud white women as well, so what is your point. Do you have an issue with black women or better yet does your friend?????? If you are a very observant person you should know that when a black female does something uncouth that another women does from a different ethnic group it is looked at much worse.
Comment by Salsassin on 14 January 2009:
I think what I stated was quite clear. That stereotypes based on a limited group tend to hurt the larger group as a whole. If you couldn’t understand that, not my problem. Yes all groups have their uncouth sections, but for some reason, African Americans are noticed more for it.
Is it all biased perception? I don’t think so. I think that while the White community has a numerical amount of people that act like this that is larger, by percentage of population you have a much larger group that doesn’t, and thus it is harder fro the stereotype to be formed. In the Latino, there is a similar issue of multiple ethnicities from many different regions, so it is harder for a stereotype to be formed. Stereotypes are based on exposure to some limited vision of a certain way of acting, and lack of exposure to positive images to counter those stereotypes. Because the White American population is the predominant culture, you get bombarded with images of Whites in all situations from terrible to pristine. Thus it is hard to stereotype them as just one thing. Latinos have their own stereotypes, but a lot of them are overly sexual, and exotic, so they counter the images of the crass ones, like that of Chicano gangs. But look at what the media flashes constantly in the TV. Including BET. Don’t assume I or my friend have a problem with blacks. What I am stating is that the the perception is what is negative and doesn’t portray a reality that is much more diverse.
Clearly I am stating that Black women are NOT defined by the stereotypes, but those stereotypes can hurt them.
Comment by cdhill on 14 January 2009:
“What I am stating is that the perception is what is negative and doesn’t portray a reality that is much more diverse.”
The reality may be much more diverse???
So perception may not always be reality?
HOUSTON, the eagle has landed…
This is all I’ve been saying all along.
Realty is almost always more diverse, complex, intricate, and unpredictable than perception.
In relationships people will treat other people poorly.
And when you are in one of those relationships and you are being treated poorly it’s very easy to rely on your perceptions and assume that because it has happened to you and (or) you have seen it happen this way more times than not, it must be the reality. But this is flawed logic.
Are rates at which black women getting married decreasing? I guess. The blog said they are.
It is because Black women are undesirable as I asserted in my Hypothesis? No.
(That sh!t was silly and I only wrote it to make a point about how statistics can be twisted to fit any scenario the author chooses.)
Is it because Black men are non committal, spoiled, insecure or crazy? No more than any other people in the population.
Consider:
A black man consecutively dates 4 black women and commits to none of them. A perception might be that he is non-committal. The reality is that for each woman there was a specific reason he did not commit.
The other fallacy come from the woman that dates 6 black man in a row and none of them commit to her. When a man does not commit to a woman he has a reason. He may tell her. He may lie about it. He may never share it. But he has it. They may all have the same reason they did not commit to her. They may each have different reasons. But the bottom line is, nothing can be concluded about black men as a group from the experience of this woman. Her perception may be that all black men are dogs. But that is only a perception. Its not reality.
And it is a greater mistake to assume that any of the actions of any of the black men above translate to the group of black as a whole. To believe this is to subscribe to a type logic that would claim that “all Germans were Nazis”, or “all white people are racists” or “all American made cars are junk.”
Men are simple. And the nature of most men is this: When a man finds the women for him, the one he loves, the one he wants to commit to, there is no obstacle (short of death) that will keep him from her. And if you aren’t her? Oh Well…
And if you aren’t her over and over again, your issues are nothing that can attributed to or solved by race. And that’s not a perception. That’s reality.
So what’s the answer?
In my opinion NOPLAYER hit it on the head. He wrote:
“Black women are not the victims here, many are single because they want to be single and some just don’t choose to marry.”
And it is this choice that is driving their rates down.
They are choosing to be single based in large part on their perceptions. And I’m not saying there aren’t other reasons. There probably are.
But if the woman decides to take personally responsibility for situation and can figure out why she’s not the one, over and over again, her reality will change and her perceptions will follow.
Just my dos centavos.
Comment by starthai on 14 January 2009:
When someone writes an essay for others to read it should always make sense. It’s pretty obvious from the particular essays I’ve read so far on this topic, some of these folks are on a mission and out on left field others are trying their hardest to sound intelligent; yet not taken seriously I’m sure this is the case off line as well. But, bbrreabit you have good sense.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 14 January 2009:
I think we have beaten this horse enough. Ria, may I suggest another blog addressing our “European brothers” why they find women of different ethnicities desirable or appealing than their own race?
Perhaps we will THEN get some “C-R-E-A-M” our coffee.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 15 January 2009:
VA-_SongBird what do you mean by some ” C-R-E-A-M in our coffee ? Cream is used to weaken coffee that’s deemed too strong. I do’nt know what you mean so help me out!
Comment by Salsassin on 15 January 2009:
To cdhill
”In relationships people will treat other people poorly.”
Some will, some won’t.
“And when you are in one of those relationships and you are being treated poorly it’s very easy to rely on your perceptions and assume that because it has happened to you and (or) you have seen it happen this way more times than not, it must be the reality. But this is flawed logic.”
We aren’t just talking individual subjective perceptions though. We are talking national trends and statistics.
“Are rates at which black women getting married decreasing? I guess. The blog said they are.”
No, the statistics are.
“It is because Black women are undesirable as I asserted in my Hypothesis? No.
(That sh!t was silly and I only wrote it to make a point about how statistics can be twisted to fit any scenario the author chooses.) “
Not necessarily. Some undesirability attributable to negative trends in some sub-groups and their subsequent effect in stereotyping the larger group can play a role.
“Is it because Black men are non committal, spoiled, insecure or crazy? No more than any other people in the population.”
Not necessarily. And that is what statistics is about. Unbiased looks at trends. The question is the reason. Why aren’t the marriage trends in other ethnicities dropping as much, in a proportional nature? Why was there a higher rate before in Afro Americana? That is what we are exploring.
“A black man consecutively dates 4 black women and commits to none of them. A perception might be that he is non-committal. The reality is that for each woman there was a specific reason he did not commit.”
A black man that has 4 women to date has the option and the temptation to weigh more options than the Black man who only meets one. The reality is that, at an individual level you can see many reasons, but when you look at statistical trends, and specifically large changes in trends, then you look for common factors that would affect that change. Obviously Black men (and Black women) had similar options before, but they chose to marry more often.
“The other fallacy come from the woman that dates 6 black man in a row and none of them commit to her. When a man does not commit to a woman he has a reason. He may tell her. He may lie about it. He may never share it. But he has it. They may all have the same reason they did not commit to her. They may each have different reasons. But the bottom line is, nothing can be concluded about black men as a group from the experience of this woman. Her perception may be that all black men are dogs. But that is only a perception. Its not reality.”
Again. If it is the experience of just one woman, you are right. Two, three women still may be individual cases. But when we detect a trend, then the explanation can’t just be that the random individual choices of males or females are the same as before. Something else has to account for the change in trends, ceteris parabus.
“And it is a greater mistake to assume that any of the actions of any of the black men above translate to the group of black as a whole. To believe this is to subscribe to a type logic that would claim that “all Germans were Nazis”, or “all white people are racists” or “all American made cars are junk.””
As individuals, you are right, but we are speaking of trends. And when groups of people in Germany started acting at an alarmingly higher rate of racism than before, we could say that racism had became stronger in Germany, and when trends of racism have decreased in modern Germany we can say that racism has decreased. Obviously we can’t claim a reason for all Black men and women, but we can look at the evidence to try to figure out trends. Where certain actions done by certain groups of Black men or women have changed, or if certain groups of men and women with certain beliefs have grown larger, or if an external factor is the cause and the Black population per se has remained constant. There are definitely factors beyond random individuality. The question is what they are.
”Men are simple. And the nature of most men is this: When a man finds the women for him, the one he loves, the one he wants to commit to, there is no obstacle (short of death) that will keep him from her. And if you aren’t her? Oh Well… “
I truly recommend you buy a book on social psychology. You will realize there is a lot more at play, many times, than individual choice.
I recommend Social Psychology by David G. Myers. It opened up my eyes, and you would be surprised at how much individual choice can be influenced by external influences.
“And if you aren’t her over and over again, your issues are nothing that can attributed to or solved by race. And that’s not a perception. That’s reality. “
ON that, I agree. But racism can be a factor.
““Black women are not the victims here, many are single because they want to be single and some just don’t choose to marry.””
Many are. But many aren’t. And there is a statistical trend that has to be either explained by a change in women’s desires to marry, men’s desire to commit, or external factors or a combination of all three.
“They are choosing to be single based in large part on their perceptions. And I’m not saying there aren’t other reasons. There probably are.
But if the woman decides to take personally responsibility for situation and can figure out why she’s not the one, over and over again, her reality will change and her perceptions will follow.”
So in a perfect world, with all Black men and all Black women having perfect careers, high desires to be in monogamous relationships, and all Black men marry Black women, what would be the change in responsibility that the women who are still single should take to figure out why they weren’t the ones?
To starthai
“When someone writes an essay for others to read it should always make sense.”
Not really. A Well-written essay may still only make sense to those with the capacity to comprehend it. Some people just don’t have the education or the general understanding.
An essay has to be well formatted and logically constructed, but the onus is still on the reader to be able to follow the logical path of the essay. Or point out where the fallacies in logic are. If they can’t, it is their capacity to comprehend, and not the capacity of the writer that should be called into question.
To VA_SongBird
” I think we have beaten this horse enough. Ria, may I suggest another blog addressing our “European brothers” why they find women of different ethnicities desirable or appealing than their own race? “
Dunno, the horse seems to still be kicking. I think HUMANS find women appealing from all ethnicities varying with their level of acceptance of divergence in cultural traits. The question would be if your “European brothers” have an attraction across the board that is higher or lower than what would be expected if every one of these groups where European looking but with the same degree of cultural differences. I.e. would the European brothers date the Euro looking Irani girl who is Zoroastrian any quicker than they would date the Dravidian girl who is Christian? (Similarity in looks vs similarity in culture)
”Perhaps we will THEN get some “C-R-E-A-M” our coffee.”
Maybe if you want cream in your coffee, the onus is on you to explain why you find that cream so appealing?
To: NOPLAYER
” VA-_SongBird what do you mean by some ” C-R-E-A-M in our coffee ? Cream is used to weaken coffee that’s deemed too strong. I do’nt know what you mean so help me out!”
Not really. Same coffee. Just an added element to enhance the flavor. Just as xocolatl was enhanced by tlilxochitl (vanilla) and necuhtli (honey/nectar) to make the original chocolate drinks.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 15 January 2009:
Ok my friend, I now understand. I wish you the best and may all you desire come your way!!
James
Nurnberg,Germany
Comment by cdhill on 15 January 2009:
lol.
You say you want CREAM.
YOU can’t even get coffee.
Perhaps you focus on just getting the cup.
Comment by cdhill on 15 January 2009:
Salsassin
I don’t disagree with you.
I think you are moderating both ends of the spectrum.
And I think that’s fair.
Because I think the issues and the answers lie all across the spectrum.
I give them such a hard time because they love to assign blame. But the squeal like stuck pigs at the hint of culpability or personal responsibility.
Blaming other people is always the easiest way out. But its rarely the right answer.
Carl,
Dallas, Texas
Comment by Salsassin on 15 January 2009:
LOL. I hear you.
Jaime
Atlanta, GA
Comment by VA_SongBird on 15 January 2009:
Thanks CDHill, that’s a compliment coming from you! Whew! At least I know you are not to be considered. It is clear you desperately need “attention”. How many times do you have to be told “you are raining on our parade”????? This blog is not about YOU and your theories. No one is impressed. Conversation closed.
Comment by starthai on 16 January 2009:
“To starthai
“When someone writes an essay for others to read it should always make sense.”
Not really. A Well-written essay may still only make sense to those with the capacity to comprehend it. Some people just don’t have the education or the general understanding.
An essay has to be well formatted and logically constructed, but the onus is still on the reader to be able to follow the logical path of the essay. Or point out where the fallacies in logic are. If they can’t, it is their capacity to comprehend, and not the capacity of the writer that should be called into question.”
Salssasin, not in my book!
To succinctly respond to your quizzical remarks, my ability to fathom what I read is pretty solid. Your ready-made, paraphrased, comments on this particular topic is no new news for most people, therefore, it does nothing to expand my inventory of ideas. Secondly, how does one go about forming a “hypothesis” that is not objective. This totally makes no sense to me, maybe I need to re-read the topic, question, and who the question was aimed at or someone else needs to.
I could careless what type of degree/s someone has, because I’m not easily impressed and as a undergraduate pre-med student, I observe plenty of students skating on through by kissing butt or worse when graduation day comes they end with only knowing what to think, instead of how to think. I strongly recommend the next time you get an itch to insult someones intellect, you keep in mind there will always be a multitude of different perceptions ( especially on blogs) and there is no need to mock someone that does not agree with you. To do so speaks for its self.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 17 January 2009:
Hello? It bears repeating, we need a new “blog”! Also, please review carefully the subject matter in the future before commenting and attacking individuals whom rightfully should be commenting.
Subject matter was addressed to Black Women to obtain THEIR prospective on why many are not marrying. Reading really is fundamental!
Comment by Salsassin on 17 January 2009:
To starthai:
I could care less how logic works “in your book”.
Your claims as to how solid your understanding was of what I posted is meaningless if you do not address the claims per se instead of trying to assign motive to the posts. Maybe a class in logic might help you. Yours was a classic “appeal to motive.” Now you are trying to make a “style over substance” argument. But you have yet to actually address any of my points and state where they where inaccurate.
ALL hypotheses have some element of subjectivity as they come from a person’s experiences and how they apply that knowledge to the task at hand. You can still try to be as unbiased as possible.
You could careless what type of degree/s someone has, because you are not easily impressed as an undergraduate pre-med student. You don’t even have a bachelor’s yet. To claim that you are studying a prep program to get you to med school doesn’t mean you have been accepted yet. I knew plenty of pre-law students that never went to school. Both my parents are doctors. Your “appeal to authority” was quite weak. I mock you because of what you chose to argue with. Strawmen. When you actually choose to argue the issue, you may impress.
To homesteader:
I see elder bums in life all the time. People who never learned to grow up. Your age means nothing if you can’t present a logical, relevant comment. You sound like a blown out flower child from another era that tried a bit too many products with your disjointed comments. I would tell you this, no matter what age you had. But out of respect for your age I kept quiet. Until you were foolish enough to attack me for something completely irrelevant to the discussion.’
I am glad you found happiness with your wife. That is your experience. That is not the experience of many women in the world, and we are discussing what some trends may be that are causing these changes in trends. Your pithy comments have not addressed that particular question.
If you learned to read a bit more carefully, you would see that I actually have quite a few posters who agreed with my explorations or saw me as being fair in them.
Now wash the caca out of your brain before making claims of crap on other’s hands.
To VA_SongBird:
It asks the question in general. It never states that it just wants the female perspective. Don’t confuse subject matter with exclusive rights to commentary on that subject matter.
Comment by Salsassin on 17 January 2009:
homesteader, the questions of the blog address Black women and marriage. Perception about them, choices that they make and exterior influences that affect the parameters of choices available and what choices are made.
It is not just a White man, Black woman question. It is a Black women and men who have ever considered dating a Black woman in general question.
So all those people play a role in the question.
And others outside that group can still comment by contrasting their experiences to that of those in question. But you keep seeking permission.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 17 January 2009:
I don’t think this blog was intended to be a trick. The intention of the subject is quite clear to many. If you wish to be technical, I fully agree,there is no specific language which excludes any other individual who is of “none black female” persuasion from commenting.
However, please be thoroughly convinced that statistical data and contrasting your experiences as a Non black female will never take precedence over “being” a Black Female who has lived this issue out on a practical level.
Comment by Salsassin on 17 January 2009:
First of all. Learn to pay more attention. I am male. Not a Non Black Female. Unless a Black female is engaging in a Lesbian marriage, by force, her chances of marriage, and even the option to choose to marriage is half out of her hands and half in the hands of the male species. Therefore, the topic is relevant to all Black males who consider dating Black females or who choose not to date them.
Non Black Females also have a valid opinion in respect to comparing what the Black woman is saying with her own experience, to see if it is a female issue or a Black female issue only. They can also express their opinions as to secondary evidence of men who have dated Black women and now date them, or of men who dated them and now date Black women.
All opinions can give a small piece of the puzzle and should not just be written off.
Comment by diva on 17 January 2009:
salsassin your a races you dont know what your talking about calling people bums don’t know them .and you should not be on this site you need to be on another site for what ever race you want. Ria you should read comments and stop people like salsassin from being on this site making comments of hate.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 17 January 2009:
Salsassin , as a Black Female, I have never needed a male to explain to me the dynamics of being black or a single female. It has never once crossed my mind. Therefore, you comments have not revolutionize my thinking or changed my life at all.
You are too impressed with yourself and you have repeatedly marginalize others through out this discussion with your superior and educated attitude.
I’m in support of Diva’s comments. It probably would be great if you find another blog or site, but I strongly suspect that you’ve probably been “blocked” from other dating sites and this is your last resort to sound and feel important.
Comment by lala2qz on 17 January 2009:
Do black women really want to get married? Are the single ones single by choice or is the choice to get married really ‘half chance’ as Baz Luhrman puts it?
I think the best people suited to answer these questions(especially the former) would be black women…. you can look up all the statistics you want but that doesn’t make what you say correct. I think living the life of a black woman…. you would know why better than most.
In a degree, it’s like asking, ‘Are black women like Condoleeza Rice have a stern exterior because they are sexually frustrated?’ you can do a lot of research and come to your own hypothesis that it is because of…. whatever you conclude it is in your mind. And use a ton of statistics from wikipedia to back up your claim. But, an accord, research and answers from said black women would be more fallible. I’d much rather find out if black women want to get married from black women, because they would know more about it personally, than a nonblack male.
Comment by lala2qz on 17 January 2009:
sorry for grammatical errors, I was in a rush. In the question about Condoleeza, it’s supposed to say “Do Black women….”
Comment by VA_SongBird on 17 January 2009:
lala2qz “THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH” for so eloquently and concisely stating the purpose of this blog.
I don’t think it was Ria’s intention to exclude anyone. However, this blog happen to focus on why Black women are chosing or not chosing to marry. It really was that simple. However, some of us, have a way of complicating the obvious.
Comment by lala2qz on 17 January 2009:
Indeed they do, not to make an insult to statistics but the leading conclusions are always up to interpretation.
I mean this question could be changed to, “Why do so many nonblack women desperately marry and live with contempt of being unhappily married or divorce? Is it because you feel better just being able to say you are married?” I mean…. everyone could leave their comment on the matter, but wouldn’t you particularly want to know from some of those women why?
But, I digress.
I honestly don’t mind others opinions, but the answers by starhai and mlt were the ones I looked for. Because to me, they as black women, could give me the answer I was seeking… because the question asked if black women want to get married, and didn’t ask from a 360 degree societal point of view of technicalities. If this were a survey question, it would only be asked to black women. But the latter, the one about half chances, I do feel that can be interpreted as being more open to others however. But still, it seems to be asking black women is it because they just don’t want to, or because of chances?
One more thing, to completely settle this, something I felt I should post from the article:
THE MAIN PURPOSE
“I need to find out exactly what the black woman thinks about marriage … from her point of view.”
BUT NOT TO EXCLUDE ANYONE
.”
Others are also welcome to tell us what they think, but count me out if you step on a sista’s toes
Comment by Salsassin on 17 January 2009:
diva
”salsassin your a races you dont know what your talking about calling people bums don’t know them .and you should not be on this site you need to be on another site for what ever race you want. Ria you should read comments and stop people like salsassin from being on this site making comments of hate.”
LOL. First, learn to type, then to express yourself coherently. Feel free to show one comment of hate I have made.
VA_SongBird
”Salsassin , as a Black Female, I have never needed a male to explain to me the dynamics of being black or a single female. It has never once crossed my mind. Therefore, you comments have not revolutionize my thinking or changed my life at all.”
Entertaining. Not once have I tried to claim that I knew what dynamics of being a Black female or a single female where. But I did state that Black females where not the only ones that could talk about what might affect the dating pool of Black females, nor where Black females the only ones that could talk about being single females.
Sorry if you think education is threatening. Personally, I find it is usually those with insecurities of their own that fear commentary from others no matter the education. I don’t attack others until they make ad hominems, or prejudice comments.
Sorry if you are too self-absorbed to think you live in a vacuum and other’s opinions do not affect you.
Keep on amusing me with your assumptions that I frequent dating sites, in the first place. I hang out in multicultural sites.
This blog focuses on why Black women are marrying less. Either from internal effects, such as your choices, external effects such as choices of Black males, and non-Black males, or a combination of both. And in that sense, there are some things you, by your logic, can just not talk about because you are not male.
Black women are only answering half the equation, who they choose, and only based on each limited perspective. It doesn’t mean every Black woman is fully aware of national trends. Or why their selection pool is the way it is. And in that area, there are many people who can contribute to give a better perspective. Not just one person, or one group of people.
The whole essay dealt with stats and how the author doesn’t agree with some of them. Then she posts a final thought that MAYBE will point to an answer: “Do black women really want to get married? Are the single ones single by choice OR is the choice to get married really ‘half chance’ as Baz Luhrman puts it?”
That is her opinion and we are commenting on it. First, some of the statistic trends she mentions aren’t accurate. All ethnic groups are not down in marriage in the same levels. But going back to her final posited question, some seem to ignore that the author clearly states that there are two alternatives she is seeing. She favors one, that Black women are just choosing to marry less, but she states that there another explanation, as Baz Luhrman puts it, “a half chance”. Some factor outside just the realm of Black women’s choices.
And that is what we men have been discussing. Theories some of the Black women here have agreed with.
Comment by cdhill on 17 January 2009:
So the logic my sisters are arguing is, if we wanted to explore why crime rates were going up (or down), the only way to do that would be to exclusively talk criminals.
You couldn’t talk to law enforcement about the crime rate because they aren’t “living the life of a lawbreaker.”
Nor you could gain anything from speaking with victims because they are of the “non criminal” persuasion.
And psychologists, lawyers, criminologists, economists or other experts must be ignored because “they could not know more about this topic than the wrongdoers.”
So for the moment, setting aside any discussion of solutions:
Marriage rates for African American women are decreasing.
Because African American women are the group so adversely affected, only African American women are the only qualified to speak on the topic.
non sequitur.
Salsassin,
In this venue, that fallacy is going to be difficult to overcome as the original premise has been backstopped with it.
And on top of that, now you’ve got a straw man with a race card in his pocket.
lol
Comment by lala2qz on 17 January 2009:
I merely pointed out the FACT that Ria particularly asked the black women. I was interested in that particular opinion as well, cause as a half black woman I know my limitations on the subject, I know that I don’t experience and go through some of the same things.
Hmmmm… Cdhill, just wondering, are you from a ghetto? why do black guys commit so much crime? You’ve stolen something before right?
lol. i kid, i kid.
Comment by cdhill on 17 January 2009:
lol.
I read the blog again. I guess I just don’t see where Ria said this was a question for the sisters only.
I see you have jokes.
Yes, I am from the ghetto.
Where the streets are filled with uneducated, lazy, criminal, irresponsible black men and promiscuous, overweight, angry and (let’s not forget) single black women.
Ahhhh Home…
Comment by VA_SongBird on 17 January 2009:
lala2qz thanks for being a “breath of fresh air”. You are correct, you only stated the “facts”. It is in writing for anyone to read.
Unfortunately, it is clear there are few individuals whom are only interested in hearing themselves talk. The subject, the subject matter and The FACTS are of least importance to this blog.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 17 January 2009:
lala2qz thanks for being a “breath of fresh air”. You are correct, you only stated the “facts”. It is in writing for anyone to read whether your comprehension level is at K-1 or Post Doctorate (Did I cover everyone here?).
Unfortunately, it is clear there are few individuals whom are only interested in hearing themselves talk. The subject, the subject matter and The FACTS are of least importance to this blog.
Comment by homesteader on 17 January 2009:
10 /4
Comment by homesteader on 17 January 2009:
or was that 410 senility
Comment by big C on 17 January 2009:
coffee77 and mlt35
If white men are so great and nice and tender, why are you two not marry? The hate you have for the black men in your past, have blinded you both! You must give love to get love, if hate black men you hate yourself!
Comment by Salsassin on 18 January 2009:
CDHill, thanks for pointing out the blatant fallacy that a few of these women are committing. I say a few, because many others have shown a lot more intelligence in reading the article.
Lala, you pointed out one fact out of many. My criticism wasn’t directed at you as much as some of the fluff brains on here who think flatulence is an example of great commentary.
Ria’s first point:”But have you ever stopped to analyze the stats?”
Begs the question, Go look at the stats and see if you agree with me. I already stated I didn’t, because even though marriage is down in all groups, it is statistically much lower in the African American female community. So there has to be other factors, either from within the Black female community itself (changing perceptions unique to Black women) or from changes in exterior influences.
I could just as easily point out that most women commenting on this board are not representative of most Black women in the US as they are seeking to date interracially, and many do so exclusively. The vast majority of Black women in the US do not have this mentality, so they aren’t the norm either. I mean, if people want to argue semantics and strawmen, I can pull out a ton of them.
Instead, lets look at what Ria really proposed and what debates it entices. I already pointed out she called into question the stat evidence, making it a subject of discussion. Here next important commentary: “When I look around, I get to see most black women are single … not alone though. Just single. There is a difference. These women are healthy and wealthy and have boyfriends, friends with benefits, partners or whatever you would like to call them. But when it comes to walking down the aisle, there seems to be an issue.”
That begs the second question.: How many Black women are single and happy to be single. Happy to have friends with benefits, happy to have boyfriends without ever moving forward to marriage? Obviously, the norm in this message board would be, not many, as most are actively seeking marriage material outside their ethnicity because they didn’t find it within their ethnicity. But they aren’t the norm of Black American women. So that is a question that has not really been answered on this board. It would be interesting to see if any surveys have been done within the larger African American female community.
Ria proposes a lot of “maybes and states she doesn’t know. SO the factors could be internal or external.
She clearly asks for the Black woman’s opinions, I agree with that: “I need to find out exactly what the black woman thinks about marriage … from her point of view. Others are also welcome to tell us what they think, but count me out if you step on a sista’s toes
.”
But she clearly states others are also welcome, but if they incur the wrath of a sistah, they are on their own. Guess what, I have been dealing with sistahs since childhood, so I have no problem being on my own when I step on a few sistahs, brothahs, or white boys and white gorls toes. I am an equal opportunity stomper of retarded people’s commentaries.
For those who like intellectual conversations and/or debates I always offer my utmost respect.
Notice that CdHill and I have disagreed many times, but always with respect. Same with a few of the Black women who have posted early on which I have continued dialogue on the PM side.
I don’t claim to have the answers. Just adding my food for thought to the discussions.
An interesting study was done by King, et al, in 2007: “Personal characteristics of the ideal African American marriage partner: A survey of adult black men and women” Journal of Black Studies
It showed that the vast majority of Black males and females were seeking partners that made significantly more than themselves. Is this study significant? I don’t know, but it does add the factor that many people may be avoiding marriage because their income expectations are just unrealistic in the dating pools they are frequenting.
Here is one study that might be a little bit more on the money, at least for women who are in the higher income braquets (it wouldn’t be as applicable to women in lower income echelons)
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-05202004-134823/unrestricted/contents.pdf
“Understanding how young high functioning African American Women perceive marriage and their thoughts about remaining Single” Linda lee allen-benton, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, 2004
Two other studies that might bring some light to the question are:
African American Females’ attitudes Toward Marriage, Anthony King - Journal Of Black Studies, 1999
and
“Do men “need” a spouse more than women?: perceptions of the importance of marriage for men and women” by G Kaufman, F Goldscheider - Sociological Quarterly, 2007
The second study seems to indicate that there is definitely a gender difference.
” We find that both men and women feel that men need to be married more than women do. Women are more likely than men to think that both men and women can have satisfying lives without marriage, but they are also more likely to think that only women can have satisfying lives without marriage. Younger, more educated people are less likely to emphasize marriage. On the other hand, religious people and those who are married with children are particularly likely to think that neither men nor women can have satisfying lives without marriage.”
The question would be if there is something else (it sure sounds like there is) that is exacerbating this gender difference and is causing an overall marriage drop across both genders in the African American community. What, that cannot be explained just by overall gender disparities is causing an overall drop of marriage within the African American community. And again, I suspect more women on this board are probably middle to upper middle class income ($30,000 or above)with some college education, while the majority of African American women are not. So even comments from Black women would not always be on the money as to attitudes by the majority of Black women that are experiencing different choices than them.
On a side note, VA Song Bird, I’m sorry it just is way over your head. It is obvious even a simple explanation will elude you.
Comment by lala2qz on 18 January 2009:
I stated that she mentioned others were welcome to comment if they want as well. Geeeez don’t write an essay, lol. I got your point and pretty sure I mentioned in an earlier post that certain things stated could be more open to other responses.
But I was very much more interested in the black ladies opinion is all, and Ria particularly pointed out that she wanted that too. Even though I do appreciate the others because it fixes the puzzle of a bigger equation. but overall, my focus was on the black ladies opinions, whether or not they represent the vast majority.
So, the article as a whole, is surely open to all… but I simply mentioned that Ria made a clear target.
Do you understand what I’m trying to say? Ehhhh.. doesnt matter. I’m just gonna end it with the fact that I understand what you were trying to say. So Salsassin please don’t reply with a book, let’s leave this at this.
anywho…
I simply wish the bickering could end, but I didn’t feel you were directly attacking me in the first place. cdhill maybe, because I felt he took my words out of context. And I only like to be called sister by women, regardless of color. I definitely don’t call black guys ‘brothas’ Oh, back to Cdhill..
Cdhill, yes I’ve got jokes, lol. lots. But, on another note, I don’t know much about ghettos but the few people I’ve met from one were very discouraging. But I believe that some pretty ethical people could come from one as well no? Do you think coming from one has influenced how you are towards women or your views on commitment and marriage in a negative way?
Comment by laugh_sailor on 18 January 2009:
Salsassin - Thank you for your clear, solid and insightful thoughts. Having a professional in the field we’re blogging is a godsend and you have raised the conversation significantly. I particularly appreciate the research you reference - The scope of this problem is, if anything, worse than anecdotally mentioned in these blogs (eg. In 1991, 54% of African American children were raised in single-mother households, with 65% of them in poverty, as opposed to 19% of children raised in poverty by two-parent households and 19% of Caucasian children raised in single-mother households, with 54% of them in poverty:* An impetus for the unrealistic income standards many black women have in dating.).
I am finding the papers cited, as well as others… but only the table of contents and a brief summary. I’ve found some research available… for significant subscription costs. Do you have any suggestions for further in-depth reading (preferably online)? Thanks in advance.
* McLoyd, V. C., & Jozefowicz, D. M. H. (1996). Sizing up the future: Predictors of African American adolescent females’ expectancies about their economic fortunes and family life course.
Comment by homesteader on 18 January 2009:
Please do not allow , the long winded child attitude to tire you . I was invited to speak and my wife being Black , Along with us getting married . Places me in a three times is a Charm Situation , I thank you Ladies for reading my words on this topic . Now I shall leave this site to the children to play / Behave . Old man going to take a nap . Remember to wash your hands .
Comment by homesteader on 18 January 2009:
Who better to have an opinion about how a Black Ladie feels about marriage , than the Man who married her .
Comment by Salsassin on 18 January 2009:
lala2qz,
Sorry, I got distracted by the beauty in your picture. That is considered a foul in debate land. Like the opposing attorney getting all dolled up and striking a Beyonce pose.
J/P.
My response was more towards the other ladies who were claiming exclusivity, but were quoting you. I really didn’t have a problem with your last posts.
I am glad we added pieces to the bigger equation.
I understood you clearly. (But I am tempted to write an essay….)
laugh_sailor,
Thanks for the stats to clarify. Your best bet is to visit your local university where you can pull them all for free in JSTOR.
homesteader said:
“Now I shall leave this site to the children to play / Behave . Old man going to take a nap .”
G’night Gramps.
Comment by salsera77 on 18 January 2009:
Speaking of breaking negative unfeminine stereotypes of black women that may thwart non black males from seeking relationships with black females. I love what Italian Vogue did in it’s all Black Women’s Model July ‘08 issue.
I wish I could get my hands on a copy of it….but they can’t keep it in stock. – Blasted! See Video http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25569830#25569830
I found and interesting Blog / FAQ regarding this present subject/blog and I posted some but not all of it here.
I didn’t post the part regarding black men as it’s pretty controversial & long but feel free to go there and read it for yourself if you want.
http://bfinterracialmarriage.blogspot.com/
7. Why don’t you encourage more white men to approach or date black women?
My blog started out with me talking about my relationship and marriage to a white man. Most of the folks who wrote to me were black women, so I concluded that my audience was primarily black women. I never advocated for white men to approach black women because my blog wasn’t geared to white men. I think that’s another blog altogether. If it had been my intent to do that, I’d have gone about it in an entirely different way. I’ve lately come to realize that some black women WANTED me to encourage white men to ask them out and got upset with me because I didn’t do that. First, let me say that I wouldn’t imagine that I have a pipeline to white men. Secondly, those women can write that type of blog themselves or set up a site. I’ve already done that (years ago) and this is why I KNOW that there are many white men out there who want to date black women. I once co-moderated a yahoo mailing list like that—geared to men of ALL types who admired and were attracted to black women, and most of the men or people who came to that site were white men.
13. But aren’t bw causing their marriage dilemma with their “bad attitudes” and other “issues?”
I think this “attitude” thing is mostly a lot of hype. There are women in every group who have “issues.” All people have issues. The mental health industry in the U.S. is a multi-billion dollar industry that is kept financially afloat by overwhelmingly the “issues” of non-black people. So that proves to me that it’s certainly not mainly AA women with “issues.” We ALL have issues of some sort and trust–those non-black people take their issues into relationships. I’m happy that my husband loves me despite my “issues,” and likewise, I love him despite his. I’ve mingled with enough white and African women who have “issues,” (unpleasant attitudes, non-nurturing, shallow/superficial, won’t even attempt to cook or clean, argumentative, spend money like running water, morally defective, etc.) yet they’re still sought after for relationships and marriage. So why should AA women with similar “issues” be penalized for having these so-called unmarriageable “issues” when many women from other groups are not excluded by men from their group for dating and marriage?
1. What do you mean when you say that African-American (AA) women must broaden their dating and mating options to include ALL men in the global village?
Considering the approximately 45% of AA women who are at and above marriage age who have never married–and there are no indicators showing they’re headed toward marriage to AA men– it’s obvious that AA women must include non-AA men and non-black men in their dating and marriage pool IF they seriously desire marriage. Keep in mind, I’m only talking about women who seriously WANT to get married. The rest of you should not read any further. LOL! I put a lot of emphasis on MARRIAGE. I believe that if a man claims he’s committed to a relationship with a woman, he should also commit legally and in every way possible. Otherwise, I know I couldn’t fully trust him. Maybe you can and maybe you do, but if that piece of paper is “not a big deal,” as I’ve heard some men and women claim, then why not get the piece of paper? That’s just my belief.
2. Why do you focus so much on white men?
I see white men as “men” primarily just like I see any type of man. Secondly, I stress that black women should only date and marry QUALITY men of whatever skin shade. In the United States where I am, white men are the bulk of the men—period–in many black women’s environment, so if a black woman is simply looking for a loving QUALITY man, she needs to look at ALL men of QUALITY and not limit her scope in any way. From small town to big city and all points in between, whites make up the bulk of the population of the country. If you are going to go fishing looking for a certain type of fish and it’s known that more of every type of fish is in the ocean, then it just makes more sense to me to fish in the ocean rather than in a puddle—that is, if you’re serious about catching QUALITY fish. However, if you’re a puddle-fisher, that’s your business.
3. Doesn’t this mean that some AA women regard white men as 2nd choice since it seems you’re saying they’re dating and marrying white men because they don’t or can’t numerically get a black man.?
In 2008, why would an AA woman be primarily looking for an AA man—in the first place? Probability-wise, according to all of the stats out there, the numbers don’t support that type of search if QUALITY is a major criteria for her. Also, is a typical QUALITY AA man “primarily” or exclusively looking for an AA woman for long-term commitment and marriage? Even IF all or most of these men were, the numbers of marriageable AA men (those able to meet the challenges of life) looking for a black woman do not support the bulk of black women holding out for an AA man. I always look at probabilities, but she could get lucky.
It may ’seem’ that I’m saying that white men are a second choice, but I’m not—AT ALL. I also am not saying that white men are the only QUALITY men. White men simply represent a LOT of “additional” men to consider. I’ve said so many times that when I wanted to re-marry, I considered ALL loving, QUALITY men who were interested in me and my white husband was the first loving, lovable, suitable, and compatible QUALITY man who asked me to marry him. If I’d met a loving, lovable, suitable, and compatible black man, Hispanic, Asian, etc. of QUALITY first, who asked me to marry him, I’d be with him.
So, I can’t speak for every black woman IR blogger out there, but to me white men are NOT second choice. All QUALITY men are or should be FIRST choice. I personally never even considered non-QUALITY men. However, when you consider the racist history of the U. S. and the way in which MOST black women have been methodically socialized and conditioned to regard black men as their ONLY mating choice and considering that the residential patterns are still governed by race in many cases, these are the MAIN reasons why SOME (though a decreasing number) black women still proclaim, “nothing but a black man!” Yes, in some cases there IS and/or would be a preference for a black man or a white man. And there would be even if racism had never existed. However, if slavery and Jim Crow, and racism had never existed, the largest percentage of men and women would be marrying each other naturally, regardless of skin shade. I’m sure we realize that.
Since my blog is written from my viewpoint and that of similar minded black women– at the end of the day, a typical black woman of our type is looking for a loving QUALITY man who will SHOW her that he loves, cherishes, and adores her. I’ve met too many of these “nothing but a black man” black women who are now dating or in contented relationships/marriages with white and other non-black men to believe that more than a handful of AA women can ONLY be happy or fulfilled by a black men.
4. Why don’t you point AA women toward Asian and Hispanic and other non-white men more?
Asian and Hispanic men are a minority or non-existent in most places where many black women are located in the U.S. Also, of the much smaller numbers of Asian and Hispanic men in the general population, many of this small number are not interested in AA women for marriage due to cultural, political, colorism/aesthetic, and/or other reasons.
Comment by homesteader on 18 January 2009:
Recognition , We all desire to grow older . That being lifes dream . My true grandson just turned 13 .
Comment by mlt35 on 18 January 2009:
Big C.
Please for one minute do not think that I am not married because I have not had proposals, quite the contrary my dear…..please…..ever thought that like men, African American women do not just jump at the first guy that comes along with a ring……It is not about the wedding but the enduring journey of the marriage. Are the two of you really compatible, values, backgrounds, common needs etc.? If you had read all of my comments on this blog you would not have made such an ill informed personal attack….you do not even show your face!
A better question is ….why are you not married?….Commitment issues?
Remember….belief determines reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No
Comment by mlt35 on 18 January 2009:
Salsera77
Amen….QUALITY men who, as I write on my profile as well who can SHOW me his heart is what many QUALILTY single ladies desire.
Kudos. I do not know about you all but nice to have some added elements of c-r-e-a-m to enhance the coffee flavor ( credit to salsassin:):)
Remember….belief determines reality!!!!!!!!!
Comment by mlt35 on 18 January 2009:
No Player.
Thank you for your tender, positive words toward this topic. I agree with you and respect that there are some black men who actually “get it”, some others never will.
Belief determines reality.
Comment by vt33 on 19 January 2009:
Well hot damn! Noplayer I dig your thoughts, and thank you!
It’s very refreshing to see there are black men who are willing to “stay together”, yet I don’t know when and how black women have been analyzed, poked and probed like commong lab mice to get statistics, behavior patterns and all this documented in study guides and journals. Who knew!!!!
Perhaps Noplayer at some point men and women will get it toghether and take that sentiment and run with it. Yet I still can’t get past the reality that a lot of black women are busy climbing the ladder of success and simply not wanting marriage.
Later
Comment by NOPLAYER on 19 January 2009:
vt33 I wouldn’t say because sisters are busy climbing the ladder of sucess that they don’t want marriage.
I know sucessful women who want to be married but some have their reasons for staying single.
Sad to say it, alot of men seem to think that sucessful women don’t want to be married and that belief alone could hinder alot of men from even trying to get to know and start relationships with these women. That perception alone does it’s fair share of damage.
I wont try to explain why sucessful sisters are single or choose not to marry, I’ll leave that explaination to them but I will issue a challenge to us as men .
Let’s strive to do away with this belief that sucessful sisters don’t want to be married or headed towards it.
These women want more than a career, they want companionship, as one sister told me, ” I’m on a laptop all day at work and I don’t want to curl up with one when I get home”.
My best friend Kim told me that she would dread 4pm on Fridays because as people were getting ready to leave work they’d ask her what were her plans for the weekenand she wouldn’t have no plans to tell them about.
She told me she really had to take a serious look at herself when she noticed her admin asst always had cards and flowers coming to her desk and her weekends were always filled
Kim is very attractive, well educated, and a home owner but she was single and 35 years old. To make a long story short she’s now married and expecting her first child thanks to the security guard that worked in the same office building having the gutts to asker her out after walking her to her car a few times.
As men I think we get caught up in not feeling that we’re good enough for these women but save your self some time and gray hair and focus on giving the very thing her soul hungers for.
What is it that her soul hungers for???????
These women hunger for companionship they want someone to be there. It’s good to come home to someone other than the cat or the dog!
These women want someone they can talk to, someone to share their hopes and dreams, most could care less to talk about how they enrich their employers but they all desire to enrich their own lives with a loving and caring man they can confied in.
Men stop worrying about what you can’t give them and try your best to give what you have, ie your attention, your time, and if nothing else, give them ” REALNESS” ! These women are around fake shit from 9-5 / Mon - Fri and you would be surprised how well they’ll take to someone who’s real in their deeds and their words.
Men be truthful !! When you’re truthful it shows self confidence and your ability to trust. When you’re upfront and truthful it shows her you value her feelings and you trust that she wont judge you.
Be persistant !! Don’t give up so easy, if she turns you down today fine, ask her next week but if she threatens you with mase and a beat down from her brothers and cousins, leave well enough alone nobody likes a stalker ! ( LOL )
vt33 these women know the ladder of sucess can only reach so high but the the love and satisfaction that come a wholesome and loving relationship is endless.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 19 January 2009:
OOdon,
you wrote: As a non-degree-holding Black man, the point about education is a troubling one to me. I love to read and learn, however, I have no college degree. Sometimes, I am shamed by that fact…
Comment:
There are many men whom have found their nitch and success in this world without a college degree. To name a few Michael Dell and Bill Gates. Somehow they were able to find wives. God has given every human a unique gift. Sometimes, it just takes time to recognize it.
I think it is important to remember, at the end of the day, we are not marrying a resume, but a person. A resume only tells me what you claim you are qualified to do, but it does not tell me anything about your character.
Comment by mlt35 on 19 January 2009:
No Player
I had a vision this morning about which black man in this group would step up to the plate FIRST and issue some realness to the black me on this blog and I thought that you would be the first and guess what…..?
When I just logged on I am reading your message. Thank you!! A real brother at last…..not angry, not bitter, not finger pointing at women that you do not know, and will probably never meet, but tender with a heart and mind toward TRUTH and reconciliation toward positive, open and oh yeah did I say ….POSITIVE dialogue between black women and black men.
You’re my hero….for the day! Yippie.
Remember….belief determines reality.:)
Comment by big C on 20 January 2009:
mlt35
I have no commitment issues, I would love to be married (but I never proposed). I know as a black woman it seem like there more good black women then man.., but many time they come with a lot of baggage, from before they were good.
I don’t show my face, because, this site is not really for me. ” where love is more than skin deep” but that is not true, most of the people here don’t even believe that. They only want someone white, but they are black, someone black be they are white.
P.S. I ONLY DATE BLACK WOMEN!
Comment by mlt35 on 20 January 2009:
Big C
As you say, you do not show your face because this site is not really for you…If the site is not for you them perhaps you should observe from the side lines and try to learn what black men need to do in order to attract some black women back to you and not be so quick to comment …..especially in a negative way. Your experience is just that your experience, like mine, no need to respond negatively to what is our reality everyday that we wake up and go to bed black and deal with the challenges that come with this fact.
All others
The Blog was for those that seek one another interracial couples…..oh yeah I date whomever I love, black, white, spanish, asian, etc. The man is what counts, but in my living and work environment I rarely ever run into black men so I date outside of my race alot, as a result of my circumstance primarily but being truthful, and as you know this is the only way we grow, I do enjoy a man who automatically opens my door, automatically comes to the date with a card or flowers or candy to say you are special, or just being really into me, not trying to play alot of supposedly desperate women against themselves….because bottom line ….women are in control of how men treat us black, white , or other. We also have to take responsibility for this fact and self reflect and then simply correct our wrongs as well.
If we desire commitment in a relationship with a man then why in the world would we be out there dating men who tell you that they do not want commitment? That is insane! He is not qualified to even date you. Let him date other women who also want a casual relationship. We will not change HIM, but have to change the criteria for attracting a commitment minded man. Stop sending men the wrong signals. Say one thing and then do another…….Men will test you, if you say you want commitment the overwhelming majority will not take this on face value whether they are really interested in you or not. They will typically try to have the milk without buying the cow….make them buy the cow or get the milk from someone else.
If/When a man starts to disrespect you with actions, words or both immediately stop communication, otherwise you send the signal that he can disrespect you….he just did.
Happy Inauguration Day!!!!
Proof that belief really does determine reality!
Amen All praise and honor to Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Comment by mlt35 on 20 January 2009:
Lala2qz
Thank you for seeking a forum where black single ladies can dialogue about men and relationships. Glad to hear that you appreciate my comments. I also appreciate yours…I like your wit:)
Comment by cdhill on 20 January 2009:
mlt35 is exactly right.
Statistically, why are the percentages down for black women getting married?
mlt35 wrote:
“African American women do not just jump at the first guy that comes along with a ring…”
and then she wrote:
“why in the world would we be out there dating men who tell you that they do not want commitment?”
Simply put:
If you are deciding to turn down proposals, (for whatever reason) the numbers go down.
Additionally, if you are deciding to waste time with a man who is never going to marry you, you are missing other opportunities to be with a man who would. As a result the numbers go down.
Men as a group (or any subset of men) can not impact any individual woman’s conscious decision to get married or unintentional decision to remain single.
“women are in control of how men treat us black, white , or other” (mlt 35, you go girl!)
I would add…
Women are in control of the expectations they set for a man.
Women are in control of the behaviors they accept from a man.
And by default, women through their decisions, control the statistical trends regarding marriage.
One more thing.
I refuse to accept that its a race issue.
To me, when women say that the answer to this question is a race issue (black men this, white men that),
they are saying that it’s easier to blame race than to take personal responsibility for the decisions that are in their control.
Want the statistics to rise?
1. Stop fooling with knuckle-heads.
2. Discover the reasons men aren’t proposing and correct them.
3. When you get a proposal say “YES!”
In short, be personally responsible.
Comment by laugh_sailor on 20 January 2009:
cdhill - Beautifully articulated post - Thanks and I strongly agree with your emphasis and almost all you’ve said. The two things I’d like to comment on are:
“Men as a group (or any subset of men) can not impact any individual woman’s conscious decision to get married or unintentional decision to remain single.”
I think the attitude of maintaining control in all aspects of our decisions you espouse is terrific but few are that self-aware and have that strong an ego. We do stereotype people and both men and women, in various subsets strongly impact our conscious and subconscious decisions throughout our lives - It’s a shortcut that allows us to make easier decisions. It’s particularly evident in dating - Go to a girl’s night out and just listen - It’s amazing how stereotyped behaviors and attitudes come out and I’ve heard precisely the same thing from gals about guys. Often we’re too close to see what we’re doing and the most extreme examples of this are bigots, who only see outward characteristics and not only don’t see the people in front of them but deny their essential selves.
I think this problem picks up racial tones of all types naturally - It is essentially one of deciding to not look at race as a deciding factor but one that has otherwise hidden benefits that focuses us in understanding other people’s views on race so we can accept it and grow: Black women’s dating encompasses interracial dating, after all. Your attitude is wonderful and I am looking forward to much more of it with our new President.
Comment by cdhill on 20 January 2009:
laugh_sailor
What you say is true. But it doesn’t make it right.
And I’d submit that a person who has race woven into their decision making process (even if only to make their decisions easier) is probably a person you should think twice about dating.
But now we digress…
Comment by mlt35 on 20 January 2009:
Again, can we have some c-r-e-a-m please!!
cdhill
Go back and read my last message please apparantly it went right over your head. First, the site is for interracial dating……no further comment but I will add this.
It is interesting that the idea that a black woman has had marriage proposals and have respectfully declined somehow assumes that the men who have proposed are what she desires and needs….if your assumption was correct and it is not, then any man that proposes marriage to a black woman should be acceptable …..to a black women….is that your backward, narrowminded, and shortsighted mindset?? I sure hope not. I was giving you far more credit than you deserve otherwise. Imagine the oppositescenario, if a woman proposed to you would you say yes to any woman that proposed marriage to you either…that would be silly unless she met your needs…right?
What you should as a black man be trying to do is take personal responsibility for your own singleness and try to set a positive example, assuming that you desire marriage in the first place which I sincerely do not believe for a minute. I see player behavior and arrogant, cocky attitude in every message that you have posted attacking women that you do not even know. It is sad. Or like No Player, at the very least try to LEARN from the black men on the blog who are getting affirming responses from the black women. You are angry, negative and have nothing to offer the black women on this blog from what I have read….I do not know maybe other women like hearing you rain on the parade of black women. You do not even have common sense. To attract black women you have to be positive, loving and tender…..you are proving to me that you are none of these. I had not directly attacked you but I assure you that you will not directly attack me and think that I will allow this foolishness!!
You need to grow up and stop acting like an immature little boy who has not had enough attention from his mother or other female role models in his life.
You are waaaay out of your league my dear.
Please do not bother to respond, apology or otherwise.
As an educated, loving and positive black women I will not resort to your level. Grow up my dear.
I choose not to respond to anymore of your attacks….but I am sure you realize I can hold my own and then some, but negative tirades make all black people look stupid especially in an open public forum.
Grow up!!
Remember belief determines reality!!!
laugh sailor I propose to you that
Comment by Beauty1027 on 21 January 2009:
First and far most, everyone have a point.. but black woman have their own reason of not being married… it could be a generation thing, seem like that some have on here that I have briefly on their remarks. It could be you have standards that you have and the guys that you are attracting(which you have to be careful on how you carry yourself, I’ll get to that in a moment.) It could be you have your goals that you are focus on..and I can go on and on.. Now back to the part on attracting the right guy, you can’t think you will attract the right person just by your outer appearance, due to some of the woman *black or white* can dress to be flaws on the outside and get them home they issues, and others that you may find not eye catching maybe the person that you are looking for but you afraid to give that person a chance due to you judging the book by its cover(hey wasn’t you taught not to do this…hmmmm). So you have to be careful on how you betray yourself to look into another person eyesight, everyone don’t look at one person the same way as you. I notice that some say, yes I’m single by choice, those are the lines I use, and I really mean that. I have had the proposals myself, but just because a man propose to me, DOES NOT mean, I have to say yes. And reason why you have a high rate of divorces in the black society I think is because you have a lot of women that settle for that person that show them a one night of a lifetime to get them where they want them and once that happen then it’s over!!!!! Then where do you wind up in divorce court due to, 1 you what SETTLED, desperate women calls for desperate measures! Then you have some woman get caught up in this glitter in fame that a guy can provide for you, and don’t think about oh do he loves me or he is trying to cover the material eye catching stuff to make me think he loves me, and for the females that is flattered by this, then guess what you fall for it, when the glitter and gold stop or slow down, or you notice another female that you saw ole boy looking at have on similar items that you have then you want to holla, I thought he loved me because he bought me everything I wanted, he took me on trips and did this and that.. well this and that don’t show you the most important thing you been needing or seeking, LOVE! Haven’t you heard you can’t live off LOVE, when he buy you,you live off the material resources of the things he buy you, to substitute for LOVE! I can’t blame it on the MEN (black or white) due to a man can only do what you allow him to do! It’s nice have the nice things and life but don’t loose focus on the one thing you looking for in a Man! There is also another problem, we have with men (once again black and white) you have the MOMMA’s BOYS, that want to MEN! As single woman, you need to teach your son(s) how to be Men, and stop babying them and breast feeding them when they are grown in age but immature in mind. Find a male family member or friend that can be a inspiration role model to your son, if their father is not in their life. Woman live and learn from the past relationship and make the present/future better.
No matter what the color is, females have the same similarities, so race does not make pay a factor in this question. And if you so happen to ask this question on Blk woman and marriage, so you ask this question, then if you’re married are you married to a blk man or woman or white man or woman, and if so why didn’t you marry in your race? With me saying that we all know that everyone have issues that they dislike in their race but either we deal with it or we venture out to other race,(which if fine with me, I’m not looking at race I’m looking to be loved, respected, trusted, honesty, morals, character…and I can go on). But it just goes to show you not only do blk female have an issue with being or getting married its all race!
I have Caucasian female friends that is in the same mind frame of myself, by not settling for just anyone to marry. You have to MORALS! It’s amazing to hear how a Caucasian man can treat a black woman, and then to hear how Caucasian woman say how a black man treat them. If you think about it it’s not just black female, cause if that’s the case you may have the Caucasian white female marrying but guess who they are marrying hmmm Black Male or vice versa, Black female starting to open up that box of love in different color(race)(claps). We need to think back and remember what Dr.King stated that one day we(he stated his four kids, but I look at as the nationwide) won’t be judge by the content of our skin but the content of character. Learn to love and Love to learn to love no matter what color…and FEMALES Don’t Settled!
Be Blessed
Comment by cdhill on 21 January 2009:
whoa.
not sure what got your panties all wound up.
I agreed with you. Or at least with some of your statements. And despite your tirade I still do.
I understand that in a blog / message board venue a person can read their own emotions into the words that others write. And since I wasn’t writing in anger I can only assume that you were reading in anger. But I can’t control that.
I’ve not been disrespectful to you in any manner. And where I did discuss you directly I said you were right.
And unlike the things you’ve said about me, I don’t have any personal attacks for you. I don’t know you. I’ve not called you out of your name. I won’t speak to your singleness, or your intelligence, or your relationships, or who’s in (or out) your league because I’m not privy to any of that.
I can only comment on what’s written. And I’m going to stick to that. And if you write something its fair game.
And that’s true for everyone.
I don’t agree with every thing that you say.
And you don’t agree with everything (anything… lol)that I say. But that’s okay. Because it only a discussion. They are only words. Don’t let them make you angry.
you said that you wont respond but I bet you do.
you wont be able to resist.
Comment by lala2qz on 21 January 2009:
I’ll be honest, I usually don’t care to hear a black man’s opinion on issues like this because they tend to come down on the black women negatively… I’m pretty sure you can think of some examples… one being that they usually have a list of self improvements for the women or a list of the problems with black women; things like that which don’t attribute much.
But Noplayer’s assessment of this is quite refreshing, it was a lovely read, very genuine and sincere.
Cdhill, why didn’t you answer my question? I was very curious to know your answer.
Comment by homesteader on 21 January 2009:
We came , we saw and we crossed the finish line . Until each forgets about Racial difference in their own mind , it will always be present in life .
Comment by lala2qz on 21 January 2009:
Thanks mlt35. I take it as a serious compliment that you think my wit is notable.
Comment by homesteader on 21 January 2009:
We cannot change History , we can only look to the Future and attempt to make our lives better .
Comment by 00don on 21 January 2009:
NoPlayer, you’ve perfectly stated what I was alluding to when I asked, “…isn’t there a better way than men and women blaming each other regardless of race?” My point was lost, inhibiting me from getting the point across. Women are not from Venus. Men are not from Mars. As far as I can tell, she’s from Arizona, California or wherever she happened to grow up. This battle of the sexes thing is so blase, even with a ‘racial’ spin. I guess that’s a whole different blog, though.
Ladies, you are loved.
I can’t add anymore to what NoPlayer has said on that subject. It would just be verse two of the same song.
To Ms. mlt35, apologies for not getting this message to you sooner (I attempted to by PM last week). Thank you for your words.
To Ms. VA_SongBird, thank you as well.
Comment by mlt35 on 21 January 2009:
cd hill….you are correct I could not help but respond……but ONLY TO POSITIVE OR AT LEAST NEUTRAL RESPONSES THAT MAY STIMULATE POSITVE DIALOUGE SO THAT WE CAN ALL POSSIBLY LEARN FROM ONE ANOTHER AND GROW.
Sorry If I misread what your intention was but I will retort and give you credit for being positive if you say that was your intention:):):)
00don You are welcome me dear. Your comments moved me to defend the good black men which I love as well. I am positive by nature but will fiercly protect and defend when necessary:):)
I propose a challenge……that we all try to make comments that are constructive and not destructive. Maybe this is too much to ask and maybe I am naive in asking, but for in a public forum but I will hope and pray:).
Comment by homesteader on 22 January 2009:
your prayers have been answered , Joy to the world as we each are only a small part of Better days to pass . Love Les
Comment by big C on 22 January 2009:
Mlt35
I am a Starter, and a Star.
I don’t need to learn anything about women or relationships, My mother is world class, so im looking for this kind of black lady, and my parent have be married for 43 years, no outside kids, no violents,no drugs ….I liked the little idea of the site and wondered it was true,its not, like you most of the people here are old and bitter.
You keep asking for cream but if the coffee is old and burned, cream will not make it better.
Comment by homesteader on 22 January 2009:
The last paragraph ; ” Do Black women really want to get married ? ” , my wife did want to and we married . The tag ; Black women White men , puts us at the end of the Topic which was Marriage . I drink my coffee Black / Salsassin , I got distracted by the beauty of your picture as one foul deserves another , what do you boys do in them tents . Sorry I won’t ask and you ain’t got to tell .
Comment by Salsassin on 22 January 2009:
To the senile old fool:
I was talking to lala. You really must take your Alzheimer’s pills. Are your sure your Black “woman” isn’t really a man? Considering where your dirty old mind takes you. No need to elaborate. We know how kinky you truckers are. With nothing to do in those long trips, you will bonk anything that moves.
To the rest:
Sorry, been enjoying the Obama inauguration here in DC, and enjoying the fact I get sworn into the DC Bar as well. I’ll make a longer post later.
Ciao
Comment by homesteader on 22 January 2009:
You USED HOMESTEADER TWICE WITH NEGITIVE COMMENTS , then you attempt to turn that around when you say you were talking to lala . Makes you no less of an educated Liar . Now you insult my wife in a public forum . You should be Happy that We live in Texas . Your continued Disrespect shown for our President Obama no matter your Technicalities in language makes you a Bigot in our eyes . As we are common people , You speak as though you have your own personal trucker when you say ” We ” / which corner is yours ?
Comment by Salsassin on 22 January 2009:
LOL Grandpa, don’t pop a vessel. We know yu kinky old truckers don’t live very healthy lives. Don’t want you spazing at the truck stop.
Your man would be disappointed if you died.
Comment by lala2qz on 23 January 2009:
lol.
omg im sorry, im just gonna comment the last couple of posts with a “no comment”.
No wait, I take it back.
Shame on you salsassin for praising the beauty in his pics and trying to say you were talking to me.
hmmmm… sarcasm. lol
Comment by homesteader on 23 January 2009:
Remember the first thing Truckdrivers do is a Pre- trip Inspection . You seem to know alot about old Truckers . I will ask for an apology to my wife from you , Let’s see how much of a man you are . Your continuation talking like you do about her is uncalled for , rude , rash and unexceptable .
Comment by homesteader on 23 January 2009:
I apologize to the forum , as some of my comments may have been out of line . That does not change the personal attacks in the beginning , by one who attacks many people here on this Blog .
Comment by Glock on 23 January 2009:
Can’t you guys just email each other instead of posting your attacks here?
Comment by mlt35 on 23 January 2009:
lala 2qz,
I am going to agree with you the last few messages also with no comment.
Others:
Again, this is a site for interracial couples right?
Can we please have some c-r-e-a-m please:)
Again, I would like to offer a challenge for positive comments so that we can all possibly learn, because none of knows everything.
Whether you are 15 or 50 , we all desire a loving possibly interracial relationship …or so that is the claim. There is someone for everyone my dear……
Don’t try to rain on everyone elses parade because you are bitter.
Glad to see our new President and wish him all of the success and blessing in his new role as Commander in Chief and as an apparent awesome husband as well!
Remember….belief determines reality:)
Comment by NOPLAYER on 23 January 2009:
mlt35 I agree ! There’s alot to learn from eachother because we’re all unique in our own way.
I really get alot from the points that the ladies post on this site and I hope that they continue.
I’d hope the ladies will start asking more questions of the men on this board, so that we can hopefully provide some positive feedback and open doors for better understanding !
I’m sure none of us will ever marry eachother (lol) but I know we can learn from eachother !
I’m ready!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by VA_SongBird on 23 January 2009:
Hello?????? I must agree with Glock… excuse my “Anglish”…. but this is not the forum to sling personal attacks…. let’s keep these discussions stimulating and interesting….
Comment by mlt35 on 23 January 2009:
No Player.
You have an insight or instinct that is tender, loving and most important to me anyway ……that is POSITIVE which allows women to listen, pause and reflect and then respond in an affirming way to you.
Question?
Assuming that you are really interested in a committed relationship, I have a question for you….why do YOU think that many black men are non-committal and what advice would you have for single black women to protect themselves from these type of men?
I look forward to hearing your comments and reading your future book:):)
Remember….belief determines reality.
Comment by VA_SongBird on 23 January 2009:
Mlt35… I agree… NO PLAYER has such a sweet and sensitive spirit about him…. We appreciate your input NO PLAYER.
Comment by lala2qz on 24 January 2009:
I’m gonna third that(if that makes since). But really his posts always seem heartfelt and genuine. I’m looking foward to his answer as well.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 24 January 2009:
Hello Ladies please forgive my delayed response, I’m 7 hours ahead of the eastcoast so bear with me.
Mlt35 are question: Why are many blackmen non-committal?
That’s a tough one but I’ll speak from the heart!
Many blk men shy away from committment because of fear and not a lack of love. I think the fear of failure prevents alot of us from taking that extra step.
If a man carries around the weight of feeling enadeqaute, that,s a fear within itself. When a man developes strong feeling for a woman it’s important to him not to mess things up.
Keep in mind all the other baggage we carry around that you don’t see. Sisters we do pretty good at first, we call, we come by, we spend time together, we’ll cut your grass and wash your car. ( LOL )
That’s safe for us, it’s comfortable because it’s allowing us to do the very thing that we enjoy, and that’s making you happy. We can go wrong there because that’s something we can control.
The momment when things really get serious and the woman starts making it now that she wants to go further, now you’re taking away my control over the situation.
Marriage brings many new challenges that can start the process of self-doubt. Can I trully make her happy, can I afford to give her the life she deserves or will she get tired of me after a few years?
These are questions that floods the minds of men when you attemp to take them from there comfort zone.
It’s like the woman who starts to think maybe she should call off the wedding 2 days before she’s to get married.
Why ? It’s the fear of failing or letting down the one she trully loves.
Ladies have you heard these statements before; ” baby it’s not you it’s me, you derserve better, or I’m not the man you need ” ! Sounds familiar?????
Sisters think about this and think hard!!
Why would a man spend his time chasing you only to turn away once his chase is over ?
If he was just after sex he wouldn’t have to waste time fooling with you, look at all the lay up-gals and Back Alley Sallys running around with nothing better to do than answer a booty call.
Ladies don’t feel he was turned off, no he was scared off by his on doubts.
As a man there’s nothing more dreadful than being a failure to the woman you love, so it’s easier for him and on him, to let her go.
How do you protect youreself from these types of men?
Talk to him and see if he opens up. If he can talk about his fears that means he’s honest with himself and more than likely he’ll be honest with you.
If I’ll trully open up and expose the very thing that makes me feel vulnerable that menas I trust you. If I trust you then I’m not as timid and I’d more than likely be willing to take that big step with you.
Ladies if he’s not talking there’s maybe a trust issue and you have to decide if you want to try to crack the code of silence.
Sorry for dragging this thing out hopefully I’ve provided some insight.
Ok fellas don’t leave me out here by myself, help a brother out. These ladies are waiting to here from you ! If you don’t speak, you wont be heard!
Comment by homesteader on 24 January 2009:
Takes two for a relationship to work .
Comment by homesteader on 24 January 2009:
Believe and act accordingly , We are all just people with Dreams of life till the end of time . We are proof that it does happen at Afro . Because we acted on what we desired . Common sense helps reality to become Happiness .
Comment by mlt35 on 24 January 2009:
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO PLAYER.
You are a real black man. Thank you for putting “the man inside of the mans head” to real life fear as being a major part of why alot of men in general and black men as well commit, that fear of rejection, fear of not measuring up to perhaps the womans expectations etc. I appreciate this more than you know. For black women we are reared and raised to stand by your man for the most part, but often we are not aware of his hidden fears or “what if” I do not measure up to what is expected……right.
Can I offer some hands on real life insight into how this black woman deals with any man that I love, (black, white or other). I become his best friend first. Put booty calls aside and spend time really getting to know the man, his heart, dreams, fears etc. It is also fair and balanced for women to show him your fears, dreams, needs, wants, desires etc. Guess what…….? If 2 people have a real, open and honest relationship and they talk and communicate, all of this will come out naturally. You also need to trust women a little at first if you really want to gain her heart and allow her to get close to you emotionally, enjoying the little things first, but test her also, ask her honey whay if….? I lost my job, had to relocate to Nurnberg, Germany:), or whatever, before you invest too much emotionally ask her directly the questions that you want answers to…..I do. On a very early date, I let a man know what I expect in a relationship and what I am offering in the relationship so he has a clear idea of my intentions and he then can choose to pursue me or someone else. I love this step because it does 2 things. It allows me to be upfront, and allows him to have a choice in moving forward. I am o.k with the decision either way, because if he is not on the same page in life then I would be wasting his time and vice versa, better to let him go to meet and love another woman better suited perhaps.
I issue a challenge to men who really desire a mate and not the players on here to take 15-30 minutes with a woman that you may have your eye on or even gotten to know a bit but you are FEARFUL of taking it to the next level…..I would bet my chihuahua that if she is digging you also, she will embrace you and your fears and allow you the space and time to deal with it.
I think that many times men are so fearful that it is paralyzing to them and they forget the very reason for God making us as your help mate….to compliment you and to help you focus and be the best man God made you to be…..
If you pick right and she picks right then you have a formidable team. Ask her hypothetical questions if you are fearful of a direct question…..like a friend of mine lost his job and his wife said XYZ. Believe me she will engage you in how she really feels, then you will know first hand how she feels and whether or not to proceed.
I am going to step out here on a limb and share a bit more than normal in an open forum but if any woman is worth her salt and loves and cares for you and you are communicating, loving and sharing, she will more than likely has already anticipated these fears……and is ready waiting for you to open up to her when the time is right. You have to step to her real, honest and willing to accept the consequences.
I have a black father and 2 black brothers like the other ladies here I am sure, we know what you deal with, have dealt with it along side of many of you and want for you to give us a chance to stand by your side.
I personally am big on writing down your goals and plans. So what if you do not reach them in the desired time. IT SHOWS ME AND TELLS ME THAT YOU HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT YOUR FUTURE AND MINE. Then together we can try to achieve our goals together.
Many of these ladies are articulare, accomplished and could perhaps help you to achieve the dreams that you desire. Many of us have expertise in fields that may open doors that may today be closed from an insider stand point do’s and don’ts offer input and suggestions lovingly while allowing you to be in control of your own plans, but be right by your side….kinda like a Michelle Obama. She is accompliished as well, but stands by Baracks side for gentle love, support and advice when necessary I am sure. I bet man y of the ladies here are in the exact same position but do not have the men who are willing to engage in that real relationship because of fear.
I look forward to your response. Feel free to contact me directly if you want some of your responses to be more private or may feel that in a public forum may be too personal. I am your mother, sister,friend, lover and wife all rolled up in one….simply a black woman.
Mia
Philadelphia, PA area
Comment by Salsassin on 24 January 2009:
To the delight of some and the chagrin of others, I am too lazy right now to put in my bucket full of change. But I will add two cents (still decently long cents). NO PLAYER has added his well thought personal beliefs and views, as has CD Hill, as have many others. But remember that they can never speak for “The Black Man”, “The White Man”, “The Black Woman”, etc. All they can speak for is their own personal mentality and that of those they have communicated with. His very name, NO PLAYER, differentiates himself from those that are players, that would have different views than him. His perspective is definitely very valuable as he presents a very valid type of Black man’s perspective, just not every Black man’s perspective. Just a caveat to consider.
On the same token, I see Homesteader keep on saying that because his connection worked, it is easy for all connections to work. I think extrapolating like that diminishes valid issues that many people have that may not have been addressed in that particular relationship. Each person is unique, and even in trends, not all people have the same issues.
Ex. Some Black women have achieved much higher employment levels and their social circles have changed creating new dating dynamics, thse dynamics would not apply to women at lower employment and educational echelons. Their dating issues (because of different types of social contacts and qualifications in the eyes of those contacts) are different, even if their goals may be similar or not.
Comment by Salsassin on 24 January 2009:
From Homestupid via PM:
“The amazing thing about the internet is that I was able to copy your photos and comments about Truckdrivers and send them to Truckstop bulletin boards all along the East coast , these are my brothers and sisters , Enjoy . They do not carry a Bar / they carry cheater pipe to check tires . Happy trails”
LOL. You forget I can do the same to the police. Internet threats aren’t considered lightly.
You think you are the first one to threaten me online?
Get in line.
Sorry, but this moron needs exposing.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 24 January 2009:
mlt35 I wish more blk men could read your post. It would help bust up this crazy notion that blk woman have wrote them off.
I believe that too many brothers have gotten wrapped up in the negative stereotypes assigned to blk women, ei: they’re angry, too hard to please, cold, judgemental, and the list goes on !
I’ve had many talks with sisters concerning this issue and I notice that most were saying the same thing. They felt that they were getting a bad rap.
What shocked me is most felt abandoned and rejected by their own (blk men) men. I had these conversations with sisters of various educational and career backgrounds.
I wonder did we as men in our insecurity, began to assume that her advancement guaranteed our abandonement?
Did we turn away from these women out of jealousy?
These were some hard questions I had to find answers to. I had to find out how did we go from working together as a team, to becoming competitors?
I really hurt me to listen to our women talk of their pain and their feelings of being left out there by themselves. Lord knows I wanted to try and defend blk men and tell our side of the story but I couldn’t.
I didn’t have it in me. I knew I couldn’t argue because many of the things they were saying about us were true. Not all of us but far too many of us!
That’s when I started trying to learn more about us and share it with our women.
I think every man should have a woman he’s not romantically involved with as a close friend, so he can talk with her and open up.
Trust me it’s not what we say, it’s the things we don’t say, it’s the issues we keep burried inside of us that’s eating away at our soul.
We wont talk about the physical or sexual abuse we may have sufferd as little boys. We’re ashamed to talk of how mama left us on the front porch of grandmama’s house and ran off to live her life.
We wont tell you, that we don’t communicate our feelings because we grew up hearing, ” boy shut up before I knock the hell outta you”.
To many of us, silence is security, what they don’t know, they can’t use against me!
What man will tell you, his sense of self worth comes from his being able to sexually satisfy many women, because it’s the drug that eases the symptoms of his pain but it never gets to the source.
This is not just an issue with blk men, this monster is no respecter of race or class.
I think those that are well off are better at covering it up, because in this world we assume, if you look sucessful, you’re free of issues.
Comment by Salsassin on 24 January 2009:
Very well said NP. The Macho indoctrination that many men the world over go through makes it VERY hard for many to seek help or express their emotions when abuse occurs, and it occurs a lot. Just like it does in women.
Comment by mlt35 on 24 January 2009:
No PLAYER.
You have moved me to tears!!! Give me a moment. When I write I rarely ever edit so I am also speaking directly from my heart.
Man oh man are you getting into some deep heart felt issues of all men really, but as we know and can feel because all too often the realness hits very close to home for us all. I, like alot of black women I suspect have felt abandoned and as you say the white guys may ease our pain and fear of rejection by our own as well. Imagine the very same man that we were raised to expect would love, protect and provide turns to preying on their own and being jealous and competitive with their own!!!!!
Imagine what this does to a black womans psyche???
As a defense mechanism many of us have just opted out all together because like you said it is too hard and too painful to limit to just black men for many of us because we feel the anger, and pain from our very own, where non- black men see the woman, her heart and many times do not have the baggage so close to the surface. We all have baggage and issues because we are human.
I completely agree about men having a close woman friend for all men regardless of race and women to also have a close male friend to issue real advise so that we can all learn and grow. I have a male friend for 17 years now and he share his thoughts, hopes and fears and I share my feelings with him as well. It is cathartic to have someone just to listen to you, even if there is no solution but just to listen to us and who cares about us. This is our human side, our real side, our tender side.
Faith for me is the cornerstone of my …belief determines reality ….mantra. Christ is my husband, brother and father until……If I never marry then this was also his design but as Ilanya Vansant says….”In the Meantime”, awesome book, also; 40 days and 40 Nights of Spiritual Healing; A Purpose Driven Life; Prayer of Jabez….;Dr. Phils….Love Smart, awesome; Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus and the list goes on, but in reality being at home with oneself provide alot of comfort until the right one comes along. The feeling of aloneness and emptiness is subsided with having a life that is healthy and full so that when real love presents itself we are open and emotionally ready and as whole as we can be to get involved and be able to be present and fair to the other person whose life we are merging into. Take classes, read, travel, learn a language, adopt a child, adopt a pet, volunteer at retirement homes, animal shelters, tutor children in your field, become a mentor etc. Life is too wonderful to waste on bad men and relationships. Just live life and abundance in men will find you. I guarantee it. God is the one that is in control of this matter not us anyway….so we need to get out of His way and be obedient and patient and love will be all around you so that you can be selective and choose which partner is best suited for each of us.
Players do not have any idea of the impact their lying, cheating and deception for alot of women especially the weaker ladies who fall head over heels for men and actually believe what alot of men say on face value without testing and monitoring if his words and actions add up. If a woman is real with herself and wants a man to respect her she will have to say no to the majority of men because the majority of men that approach us really, really, really are full of crap. Just trying to say what they think that women want to hear where in reality they are playing mind games and running as many women as they can. Most women take this personally and they should because it is an emotional violation likened to rape. Our brothers are like you said out here trying to prove their manhood at our expense! The manhood they think that we want. The sad reality is for many black men they have set their own daughters up to choose men just like them, that will treat them badly because they have watched you treat women badly and accept this as ok behavior. I bet alot of men never for a moment think about being a role model for themselves first, and their children particularly their sweet daughters. The women that they prey on also have dads just like them who adore their daughters as well. The same daughters that they prey upon!! Crazy to think that all of this foolishness that you put out will not in some way come right back to you, often with insecure and promiscuous daughters.
I can only speak for myself but sex does not make a man. That is a natural human response. Love is what we desire!
Love is what we need. Love is what we are lacking from black men in general. It is sad to say but true.
I have learned from experience that for me it is best to get to know the man over time and as a friend and then let romance blossom if it was ever supposed to in the first place. Many women are afraid of being alone so they accept bad behavior from men. There is a difference between being alone and lonely…..May people who are marrried or in relationships are lonely lying next to their spouse if there is not real and open communication.
I am also a huge believer in the glass is half full…..while we engage and enjoy life opportunites will present themselves to us in Gods time not in our time. We do not want to hear this though, but our mate will appear when God is ready for him or her to appear and IN THE MEANTIME we will go on with life as usual, being positive, loving and kind to others because our time will come…..if we believe.
This is only my opinion and life experience.
Remember….belief determines reality.
Women also benefit alot from your honest, heartfelt assessment of what is real everyday…..believe me we live it.
Women need to begin to measure the responses from men on a weekly basis for example. Make an excel spreadsheet and count the number of men that approach you in a week for example. Note the race, age, situation of the meeting, his opening line etc. Then monitor if his words and actions add up. So, if he says X, can he prove it. If he says Y is he ready to prove it. If he cannot gladly back up his claims leave him alone, he is trying to blind you with what he thinks that you want to hear but in no real way can produce the promises he makes, leave him alone and free up yourself for a real man. He should be trying to court you. Love does not hurt, it is natural and pure and real, when it does not feel right ladies you know in your heart that this fool is trying to test me and /or trying to play you and just let him play all by himslef.
Just a few thoughts.
I look forward to your reply.
Mia
Philadelphia
Comment by cdhill on 24 January 2009:
Okay.
I gotta ask this.
(it is not an attack.)
(it is not sarcasm.)
In all seriousness.
Are you actually keeping a spreadsheet?
Comment by mlt35 on 25 January 2009:
cdhill
No silly bunny:):):) Just a way to make a point my dear…
Comment by Salsassin on 25 January 2009:
LOL. It will be entertaining for you to try to look for legal action against me. As a lawyer, I will just defend myself pro se. Go tell your man that.
Comment by Dawnshyne on 25 January 2009:
I have to say that in reading these posts (with some effort in some of the cases) I have been through the gaunlet of emotions. I am impressed with the amount of insight, sometimes research, and personal displays of past pain that has been revealed. This is my first time checking out the posts on this site and I just wanted to say thank you to the participants of this one. I will be back.
Comment by Glock on 25 January 2009:
And I have to say that I have enjoyed reading the posts as well, except the personal attacks by two members that keep going back and forth. I don’t know why they don’t email each other their messages instead of posting them here. The only reason I can see is they want everyone to see their “one upmenship”.
Comment by Salsassin on 25 January 2009:
That’s cause I blocked him. LOL
Comment by Dawnshyne on 25 January 2009:
Glock you have a very real point about the umm, negativity. I have chosen to ignore than because I have never attempted to tell a man how to win a pissing contest, lol. However the rest of it has been enlightening to say the least.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 25 January 2009:
mlt35 I appreciated reading your feed back. You said some of the same things, other sisters had expressed to me. You trully came from the heart.
I would not want my attemp to explain the reasons, for the negative behaviors of some blk men, to be seen as an excuse. There is none!
It was my intent to make it known, that some of us recognize and understand the effects, of such behaviors and how it harms relationship between blk men and women.
I think at times we focus too much on all the negative aspects within some blk relationships.
We would be lead to believe that healthy and loving relationship are not found among blk couples.
The media, books / magazine, movies and songs have done a hell of a job, to shape the perception that we are not capable making eachother happy.
We know positive images about blacks don’t make good news stories, aint it strange that we can get more coverage when we act a damn fool.
Despite the baggage that some of us carry as men, we still attempt to form permanent unions.
We try to be good husbands even though many of us never had that example up close while grewing up.
We try to be good fathers, even if we had no relationship with our own father.
Despite our handicaps we strive to be the men our women need.
You have to give us credit because some of us really put forth the effort to make our unions strong.
Sisters not all of your men believe the, “mad blk woman myth”. We know even at your worst, you’re still the best because you’re ours.
As mlt35 said you’re our mothers, sisters, lovers, wives and friends. We have a bond that’s deeper than any interracial relationship.
I’m not knocking interracial relationships but I’m recognizing a shared history, a suffering, and sacrifice made by our women, on our behalf.
Just know some of us are reaching out to you, yeah you’re disappointed and you feel let down, but inspite of it all, you still love us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your pain is real, your fe
Comment by mlt35 on 25 January 2009:
It is funny how the assumption is that all ( majority )black women are born in a poor environment and after achieving a higher level of employment have some how now climbed into another social circle….some of us …..were born into the higher social circle and are open to dating men in all social circles ( white, black, latino, etc.) provided we have simliar relationship goals. In reality many times alot of black women come from higher social circles than white men as well.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 25 January 2009:
That’s another one of those foolsih assumptions.
Many blk women tell me being beautiful, educated and professional is a curse at times.
It’s like you catch it from both sides. Your own men are mad at you and men from other ethnic groups are intimidated or jealous of you. It’s like, you can’t win for losing.
I bet that has to be fustrating as hell?
mlt35 I think the reason sisters still give relationships a chance, is because they can talk about their disappointments and not keep it bottled up on the inside.
I find that these women still want to get married and have not giving up on love, yeah some have began dating interracially but most express the desire to marry blk men.
Thats one of the things I love about our women, they love us inspite of ourselves!
If only more of us could get it together or at least make an effort !
Comment by mlt35 on 25 January 2009:
NO PLAYER
I agree!!! Well said and I feel you that as black people many of us find one another and meet and marry in spite of media hype to show negative stereotypes etc.
Many black women who also date outside of our race have not totally given up on black men but have added all men to the dating pool to increase the options of meeting and marrying our Mr. Right. Of course, I agree with our commmon bond but life is too short to limit opportunites especially on love.
Thank you for pointing out that though there are challenges between black men and women there are also many positive relationships as well. My parents for example have been married for 45 years.
I am happy to be a part of an open discussion on relationships between men and women because alot of these issues touch all groups irrespective of race.
I applaud men who try their best to open up to their women about feelings and share from the heart. It is difficult sometimes for women as well but if we keep trying and striving to be better at relationships then as a group we are all positively affected.
Thank you for being one of the black men who is reaching out to us to let us know directly that you still love us……we love you too. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are awesome!!!! I do not know about any other blog members but I have had conversations with at least 5 other people about this topic outside of this blog…. so indirectly the positive affect of open, positive, communication like this between black men and black women is spreading especially if other members on this blog are also engaging in positive converations about it outside of this blog.
I enjoy reading all of the positive messages here.
Remember….belief determines reality.
Comment by mlt35 on 25 January 2009:
NO PLAYER
You are my hero again today!!!
When are you writing that book my dear???!!! Any ideas for titles?? Maybe some of the women from the blog and site could send you our suggestions for book titles or offer to be apart of a focus group for research material. As you may know pursuing a doctoral degree is actually writing a bound book on your declared dissertation or book topic that have many similar book preparation steps for anyone writing a book. We really can all learn from one another,,,,if we share freely in love.
I want one of the first 10 autograped copies o.k., boy are you a credit to all men, not just black men!!
Seminars, interactive workshops, you could really be on to something….thanks for being a maverick….grrrrrrrrrr:)
Remember….belief determines reality!!:) You made my weekend.:)!!
M
Comment by NOPLAYER on 26 January 2009:
MLT35
It’s my goal to write this book with the next year or two. I don’t want to rush this book because I want this book to be of great substance.
My life is crazy at the moment because my job as a Dept. of Defense Contractor has me living and working in Germany, sometimes deploying to the Middle East, I go to the states for periodic trainning, plus I maintain a home in Mississippi, right outside of Memphis.
I’m a country boy by heart and I love being out in the country if only for a few weeks throughout the year.
The idea to write a book came from me keeping a diary, yeah it’s very therapuetic and it’s a self treatment for emotional constipation. LOL LOL
“Yall know we crazy”
You’re laughing because you know I’m telling it right. I’m laughing along with you. LOL
Talking to so many brothers, I find that we share so many of the same issues and I wonderd how would it affect our women if they knew some of these things.
For example this morning, while walking my dog, I saw this brother walking his son to kindergarden,as I do most of the time and you can see and feel the love and admiration between them.
Today, out of now where, I started feeling scared and vulnerable and I started thinking to myself, I want, “MY DADDY” !
Keep in mind I’m 37 years old, damn near 6ft and weighing close to 240 pounds, with three children of my on but I found myself wanting and needing my father.
Whewwwwww !
The bond between a boy and his father is so crital to his emotional developement, that if not established and re-enforced, his developemnet is arrested.
Sisters need to know that many of us suffer from “Deprivation Dwarf-ism”
For those who may not know what this is, I’ll try to explain it.
Years ago a a group of orphaned new born babies were part of an experiment. They were split into two groups.
While they were both feed the same food, at the same time, one group was deprived of human contact.
The group of babies that were held, caressed touched and kissed, developed better than the other group. They weighed more, had thicker bone structure and had better motor skills than the other group.
My father passed June of 2007 and we became closer over the last 10 years or so, but our relationship had been strained by his being absent emotionally from my life during my developing years due to my parents divorce.
Sisters need to know these things because some of them sufferd from not only having absent fathers as little girls but now they find their men emotionaly absent.
My goal is to get us to talking and to help tear down some of these misconceptions surounding our relationships.
I’d title this book along the lines of: ” Something I’ve Needed To Tell You, But Never Could” !
As mlt35 suggested, I’d hope workshops and group session would come as a result of our feeling comfortable with sharing, not just my thoughts or the thoughts of blk men but all men.
I’m accepting of that fact that, interracial dating an marriage is here to stay, so we maay as well learn how to tolerate eachother.
I hope with just a little exposure I can assist in building up your tolerence.
Have you noticed, most nurses or doctors prior to giving you a shot will tell you, “ok you’ll feel a little pinch, as if your arm wont hurt afterwards, man, do’nt they lie!!!
Sisters trust when I tell you, this hurts me more than it hurts you !
So roll up your sleeve and turn your head!
With love,
James ( Your half-ass crazy brother )
Comment by Dawnshyne on 26 January 2009:
You know it is interesting that everyone is so concerned about the welfare of the black woman and how she chooses to deal with, handle or not handle men (of any race).
NoPlayer, Steve Harvey has been threatening a book along a similar vein for a while now. I say threatening because I see the potential for harm in one-sided diatribes explaining an entire subset of American culture to another. Where is the mutual communication? Yes, some of us as black women grew up father-less, penny-less and harmed but not all of us.
Some of us fall for the okie-doke not because we feel for our men but because that is simply not an event for which we ever had to prepare. I am blessed to have both my parents willing to sacrifice to send my sibling and I to private school and to do everything they can to provide and care for us. Should I not be entitled to someone of a similar background? How can I rejoice in the love that was given to me when the person with whom I want to share it, does not know the meaning of it? And is it my job to make sure that he gets a chance to experience it? Why should that responsibility fall on me?
I think that may be why we BW are expanding our horizons. Some of us are tired of trying to figure out the messed up circumstance that has become an ilk in the fabric of our race. Some of us finally got the message God sends as waiting for one who is equally yoked.
I have faith that there are more people out there who grew up as I did and know that the supreme call in life is to better your children and I also know those people are of every race and creed. However; because I live in this society and it is still overwhelmingly skewed in the favor of one race versus others than those numbers are skewed as well. Should I be “tolerated” because I choose to er on the side of mathematical probability instead of historical rhetoric? Should I have to apologize because I am NOT messed up? Come on, at what juncture do we as human beings say, “Yes all this messed up crap happened to me and affected my past but I will not allow it to affect my future.”? When do we stop blaming mommy, the daddy that wasn’t, the sucky environment and every other social liberalism and just move on? At what age do you lose the capacity to blame everyone else for internal impotence?
Comment by NOPLAYER on 26 January 2009:
Dawnshye
“I think that may be why we BW are expanding our horizons. Some of us are tired of trying to figure out the messed up circumstance that has become an ilk in the fabric of our race. Some of us finally got the message God sends as waiting for one who is equally yoked.”
Please, feel free to expand your horizons and never limit yourself ! Seek the best that life has to offer.
The messed circumstances that some of you are tired of trying to figure out, within OUR RACE are not just limited to OUR RACE.
Don’t believe for a second whitemen, asian men and hispanic men don’t have similar ISSUES that rear their ugly heads and interfer with their relationships.
” I am blessed to have both my parents willing to sacrifice to send my sibling and I to private school and to do everything they can to provide and care for us. Should I not be entitled to someone of a similar background? How can I rejoice in the love that was given to me when the person with whom I want to share it, does not know the meaning of it? And is it my job to make sure that he gets a chance to experience it? Why should that responsibility fall on me?”
Your were blessed to have the background that you have but having someone of a similar background, is no guarantee that they will be able to reciprocate the love that was given to you.
It’s nobody’s job to do anything, that they don’t want to do. You give ” YOUR LOVE ” to the one that’s proven he’s worthy of it.
Backround ( as you have described it ) has nothing to do with a man’s ability to appreciate and love a woman. Men from the worst backgrounds are capable of loving women.
True love does not seek it’s own.
Being “equally yoked” from a Biblical stand point, if I’m not mistaken, has nothing to do with race,education, profession or income. It means being of the same belief or faith.
If I’m wrong, somebody help me ” GET RIGHT” !
” At what age do you lose the capacity to blame everyone else for internal impotence? ”
With all due respect, what you may call blame, others might call it diagnosis, trouble shooting or looking for the cause behind the effect!
If I’m suffering from high blood pressure, I want to get better, I want to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for improving my health but prior to doing that, I need to know how I ended up with high blood pressure in the first place.
” I say threatening because I see the potential for harm in one-sided diatribes explaining an entire subset of American culture to another. Where is the mutual communication? Yes, some of us as black women grew up father-less, penny-less and harmed but not all of us. ”
This book is nothing more than me and other men like me explaining how we feel about various issues that impact our relationship with our women.
I don’t claim to speak for ALL BLACKMAN, just myself and those that have giving me their input.
Where’s the mutual communication?
It’s the post that you just added to this blog, along with hours of heart to heart conversations with blk women of various backgrounds and not to mention the women closest to me ( my grandmother, mother, aunts, sisters and my own daughter ) !
I trully appreciate your input and hope to hear more of your point of veiw.
James
Comment by starthai on 26 January 2009:
Great post Dawnshye and No Player!
Comment by Dawnshyne on 26 January 2009:
Backround ( as you have described it ) has nothing to do with a man’s ability to appreciate and love a woman. Men from the worst backgrounds are capable of loving women.
With all due respect I have to disagree. Although human beings are blessed with the great ability to learn; without having previous knowledge of a subject, how do you expect to know?
I have never said that this “nature versus nurture” argument is reserved for “us”, however I refer to the roughly 200 some-odd posts made before mine that led to your posts of emotionally handicapped (and assumingly guiltless by reason of that) BM and your kind offer to assist women in learning the id with the man. Look every one has things in their lives that has led to scars and more than likely a skewed view of the world surrounding them. Like a lot of others I was blessed but not unscathe; but my question is when does one choose to learn from their past? Their upbringing? Their very existence and instead of allowing it to be a hindrance to their future be a propellant?
I know wonderful people (black, white, hispanic, asian) who have taken the knocks and bruises in life and not allowed it to shade their future. I volunteer with cancer patients and the strength I see reflected in the eyes of young people who have been all but given a death sentence is inspiring…then seeing resignation on the faces of others who live the excuse; well that is sickening.
It’s nobody’s job to do anything, that they don’t want to do. You give ” YOUR LOVE ” to the one that’s proven he’s worthy of it.
I ascribe to my earlier comments where one fully expects other human beings to be capable of the emotion. The disconnect comes into play when one or another party is not privy to “events” that may have been devoid of the feeling or the feeling was twisted to be ugly. Men are as they are; it is never a woman’s place to learn them. Boys are malleable, men are not to be. That was what I was alluding to but feel free to interpret as you see fit.
With all due respect, what you may call blame, others might call it diagnosis, trouble shooting or looking for the cause behind the effect!
Like your high blood pressure, a diagnosis leads to change…is that what you are witnessing today? I ask the question for a very real answer because I think that if we had all these enlightened, thoughtful and forward thinking PEOPLE, then this conversation would be moot.
Comment by mlt35 on 26 January 2009:
NO PLAYER
Thank you again for your enlightened view that as we started some hundreds of blog posts ago are meant to foster dialogue and positive communication between men and women and particularly black men and black women.
Nice book title idea….. Another thought for a book title could be …”Lets keep talkng til we get it right “( An open dialogue between men and women).:):).
As for the comment about feeling the need to want your Daddy is real cool too. Not many men can open up and share the way that you have shared. It is refreshing to see a man who has started down the road of self- discovery and able tap into real, natural emotions….real sweet:)
We all want our dads at different times…..for no reason at all. Ever written him a letter expressing your feeling at the time? Obviously he is no longer with us, but maybe it may help you to feel better or have some closure to what ever it is that you are feeling. Many times WE do not even know.
Ladies:
Life has taught me not to be so quick to disregard another’s feelings. They are real whether or not WE get it or feel it or understand it.
Glad to see women jumping on the bandwagon of the topic at hand with some opinions after a couple hundred blogs.
No Player
Germany is one of my favorite countries! Hope that you enjoy it there. Munchen, Lichtenstein, Rhine River, stoic riverside castles, Hoffbra house, Dacau, Romantic Road, October Fest, man is that a nice memory:). Dankie.
Anyway……nice to see that a 6 foot, 240 lb. man can express his emotions…..I want my mommy……just kidding:):):) Hope that you are smiling also. I lived abroad for 5 years also and can relate to living in 2- 3 time zones, several currencies, celsius, euro, deutchmarc, metric yeahhhhhh. I am beginning to see why you are like a hyper male of sorts.
Anyway, enjoy…….
Chat with you soon!
Remember….belief determines reality.
M
Comment by NOPLAYER on 27 January 2009:
Dawnshyne, thanks for your response.
First let me state that there are serious challenges within, not only blk relationship but in American as a whole.
Look at the divorce statistics. Pre-maritual conselling is big business now days and the business cards of good divorce attorneys are handed out along with marriage certificaites!
Ok, I’m pushing it a bit ! ” LOL ”
I’m sure both of us agree that marriage, as an institution in this country is in bad shape.
“your posts of emotionally handicapped (and assumingly guiltless by reason of that) BM and your kind offer to assist women in learning the id with the man.”
Please don’t confuse my ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of the problem, as an attemp to EXCUSE the problem.
Acknowledgment is the first step towards solving a problem.
Well, what’s the problem ?
As blk men some of us, NOT ALL OF US, are having problems establishing or maintaining loving relationships. Ok, now we’ve admitted that there’s a problem, lets see how we can get to the heart of these issues.
Believe it are not, SOME of us want healthy relationships with our women, so we’re doing away with the finger pointing and making excuses as a reason for not making needed change.
Some of us can open up better when talking to other men about issues of the heart but it does no good if the women that most of us want, never hear it.
I’m only trying to get men to talk to women and the mere fact you and I are talking and not attacking eachother, is proof that we seek to understand eachother.
When we attemp to understand eachother, even if we disagree, we don’t become condemning and judgmental.
Just knowing that you see my point of veiw worthy of a response, is reason enough to continue reaching out to you, instead of turning away from you.
Dawnshyne if more men and women would try to do, what you and I are doing, relationships and marriages wouldn’t be in the condition that we find them in.
So, let’s keep talking !
James
Comment by homesteader on 27 January 2009:
Believe in Love and you will see it come True , Love Les
Comment by ann on 29 January 2009:
@ No Player, dont’t you think it is passed time that bm get their acts together.
Comment by fvb on 29 January 2009:
@ No Player, dont’t you think it is passed time that bm get their acts together.
Comment by fvb on 29 January 2009:
@ No Player…dont’t you think it is passed time that most bm get their acts together.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 30 January 2009:
Ann or fvb? There’s no need to beat a dead horse.
Many of us know we’ve falling short and thank GOD many of us are talking and working towards finding solutions to the problems we face.
I find it encouraging that we can sit down and really open up about the things that effect us.
Often times men are so competitive and driven that we don’t form the friendships that allow us to express what we feel.
Many of us have forgotten the power of THE CONGREGATION, the coming together and the drawing of inspiration from the unique gifts that God has given to each of us.
You can tell the condition of THE MAN, when you look at the condition of THE WORLD around him.
What shape is THE WORLD in around you ???
The disrespect of women, the abuse of children, the disregard for family life and the disrespect for the union of marriage cuts across all racial lines.
It looks as if more than BLACK MEN need to get their acts together !
You can’t even think of changing the world until, you change yourself, so you work on you and I’ll continue to work on me and hopefully, together we’ll go out and do our part to help clean up this mess!
Best wishes,
James
Comment by homesteader on 30 January 2009:
I totally agree with NOPLAYER . It is rediculous to blame a race , a class or a sex of people . First look ar ourselves , examine the way we look at others through our own eyes and if we act negatively / change to a positive way of acting . I am able only to speak about a small part of the world in which We live . Seems every town within 60 miles of our house has its’ own new prison . Housing Criminals of all colors and cultures - needless to say it costs people more to house and feed them than the majority of familys of people earn in a years time . Is this not a problem of great importance to all . My father taught me years ago that it was a Richmans War and a poormans fight . Let’s look to our new gov’t as promise has been made for change and made serious changes within ourselves if that is what is needed also . We all need to work together if anything shall get done .
Comment by mlt35 on 30 January 2009:
NO PLAYER
Good to hear that you take the criticism and not take it too personal:):)
We are all here to learn and grow……right:):)
Comment by NOPLAYER on 3 February 2009:
mlt35 I didn’t see it as a strike at me because our issues are out there for all to see.
Me and some guys at work were talking and asking questions as to how things got to this point and I remebered reading on a church’s billboard in North St. Louis, ” It’s Easier To Raise Children, Than Repair Adults” !
Next to GOD, a person has no greater friend than a mother but without a father having a strong influence in a childs life, that child will not have proper balance.
Once again we’re back to the men!
You can’t replace a father no more than you can replace a mother, both are vital to a child’s developement.
“And ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the admonishment of the Lord.” Ephesians 6:4
While we were talking few admitted that they were afraid of young blk men. Never in our history have we ever been afraid of our own sons.
The children that many of us produced and left out there alone have now grown up angry at the world and some of them are killing us !
How do you help put a stop to this madness ?
You must start with RELATIONSHIPS, first with yourself, then with your mate and then with your children ( should you have any). Then and only then will you be able to start cleaning up this mess.
This whole article was about why many blk woman are not marrying or married.
It’s my own belief ( mine and mine alone ).
The condition of the men that blk women would normally select mates from, have impacted their decisions to marry.
Now interracial dating is an after option, and I say that because most blk woman as girls, dream of marrying someone that looks like them.
I just knew as a little boy, me and Thelma Evans ( “Good Times” ) were ment to be ! LOL
So, once again we’re back to the men.
Sad to say it, when we catch a cold our women often end up with pneumonia !
James
Comment by mlt35 on 8 February 2009:
Hi NO PLAYER.
I could not have re-directed the crux of the problem any better…..and you being an African American man are more than qualified to re-direct the blog back to the topic of why black women are dating non-black men ……but as you see no other blac kmen have felt o.k about participating…of course they all know, and live the same reality everyday as well as why soo many of their black women are seeking love outside of our race….because of social issues which you mentioned, we dont have time to heal a man’s soul and help to make him whole emotionally alot of times. Life itself is challenging and to add a man who is unhealthy emotionally will make your life and a relationship with him toxic and unhealthy no matter how much we may love him. He has to take steps first to recognize and admit that there is or have been problems with lets say dad or lack there of and subconsously pass insecurity lack of confidence etc,onto the woman that he says he loves. Do you see the problem. Love alone cannot fix this. 2 people have to come together emotionally whole or at the very least be very self aware of your own issues, take ownership of them and when you connect with a man or woman let them know what challenges that you bring into the relationship and hopefully both people can communicate, open up emotionally and let the other person into your heart and life and maybe have chance at happiness.
Of course many of us assumed that we would meet, fall in love and marry someone that looked like us….but unfortunately in todays world this is not reality for many of us. I love good black men, but will not accept foolishness nor play the games that many of our brothers have learned as if they went to receive an advanced educational degree on how to get over on, manipulate, use and abuse their very own women, but if someone tries to treat their daughters, sisters or mothers the very same way they are prepared to defend…..isn’t this insanity in action……?
Remember….belief determines reality.
M
Comment by VA_SongBird on 8 February 2009:
Two of my favorite people NO PLAYER and MLT35 have put it down quite well. It is about wholeness. I must be willing as Bishop Jakes says, to deal with the “enemy” in-ner me.
Only you know your issues and only you can be the first to address them with God’s help. Agree, after a certain point, most adults don’t have time fix other adults. Our pride tends to get in the way, and we end up resenting the person trying to help us. Love thyself is the greatest rule of life. It is only then, you can extend yourself and enhance the life of someone else.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 9 February 2009:
Ladies you are so right, you can’t repair men or make them whole, no matter how much you love them, you just can’t do it.
I know it’s hard because by nature women are very maternal and they what to nurture and comfort those they love.
As mother you can only do so much and a time comes when you have to stop mothering your son and let his father or some other male figure take over.
Ladies the one thing you can do for a man is inspire him.
It’s all about you! Don’t you know?????
The power is with you.
Look at how we as little boys tried to impress you by acting tough, brave and strong. If I’d charged one dollar for every bag of trash I’d taken out for a woman as a kid, I’d be a rich man! LOL
Ladies there’s something about you that drives us to do the things that’ll win us your affection.
A good woman with the right spirit can motivate a man like no else can. M e personaaly, woman have made the biggest impact on my life within the last ten years.
” Well James if that’s so, why I’m I catching all of this hell from men! ”
” Where did I go wrong! ”
No my friend, it’s where did WE go wrong?
Ok, let’s go back to when you and I were around 12 or 14 years old. You and I had a relationship that was pure and platonic. It was intimacy at it’s best, sex had no part in this because we were not having sex at that time, we were just kids.
We could talk about our problems, our dreams and there was a felling that we trully loved eachohter.
But something happened!
What?
The discovery of your sexuality and my attraction to it!
When you physicaly developed and found out that guys would do things for you just to get close to you, you change on me.
When I developed an attraction to you, I no longer saw you as that little girlfriend of mine, I saw you as a woman that had something, that I wanted.
What happen was we both learned the art of manipulation, ” using what you got, to get what you want.”
I began to measure my worth by how I could attract you and keep you, the sexier you were the better I felt about myself. My friends looked at me in a whole knew light because of you.
When I lost you to someone you thought could or would do more for you, that’s when I started to believe that maybe, good guys don’t finish first.
So I had to learn this game of manipulation if I hoped to attract you. I couldn’t trust you so I felt I had to get over on you, before you got over on me!
Sad to say it, this game didn’t stop when we became adults, we just refined the technic even more.
We got degrees, joined fraternities or sororitites , established careers, and a long list of other things to help us advertise what we had for sale.
Now I’ve grown angry at you, I feel that you’ve let me down, you’ve turned your back on me and it’s no secrete that you feel the same way about me.
What happened to us, we used to be so close ?
Ok snap out of it!
I took this trip down memory lane because I know I’m not the only one that’s been there. I mentioned this because when you think back on it, this was the turning point for relationships between alot of men and women.
This is why I say the disappoint and the hurt is on both sides and you can’t fully place blame on either side because we’re both acting a condition that’s affecting not only AFRO/AM relationship but the country as a whole.
Comment by erinfl14 on 14 February 2009:
I don’t know if I agree. I am 24 years old and I dream of getting married to the man of my dreams and having children. I know plenty of single black women who want to get married but find it diffcult to find a good man. These tend to be my friends that do not want to date outside their race!
Comment by NOPLAYER on 17 February 2009:
erinfl14 it may be hard to find a good man but he’s out there some where, believe it or not.
Sometimes you have to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.
Often times we set our requirements a certain way and we stick to them but that may be the very thing that’s hurting your chances of finding that special someone.
I started dating women that I ruled out at first, single mothers and older women and it really made a difference.
I know a guy that married a women he was pen pals with while she was in prison and now they’ve been married 5 years and have two kids. They’re doing good and they’re happy.
Years back I would not have considered these women as possible romantic interest but now I find single mothers attractive because most are unselfish and caring.
Older or mature women, or the ones I’ve meet are comfortable in their on skin and they’re open for love.
I’m sure a woman that has served time in prison wouldn’t be judgemental or stuck up.
I stated these example so show that love can be found if only we STOP LOOKING and START TO SEE.
Comment by homesteader on 17 February 2009:
It takes a Good man to make a Good woman feel wanted and when you become this Good man , she will show her appreciation of your actions . I Believe for a couple to see what changes in Personal Attitudes are possible do come from being together in their everyday conversations with each other , because each wants to make the other Smile / This I will call part of becoming an Adult . Marriage is the joining of two people who have the Desire to grow together in Life . As opposites Attract is what I have always heard . Finding fault in anyone before / you have taken the time to get to know them is part of ones own Faults . We have been forged bye history [ it was not always Nice ] - has it now became time to Forge our lives by the Future and Enjoy the History that we are creating .
Comment by Bantu09 on 21 February 2009:
Wow! I have read most of the blogs very interesting comments.
I will say this though statistics aside, meeting a person willing to settle down and accept you for who you are is much more difficult than it was in the past. Chivalry is gone it’s like men have forgotten how to treat women and women do not demand neither require this of their partners. Another thing the choice of who you want to date and eventually marry is your business. If an AA woman prefers a white man like most of the women on this site seem to be then so be it, whatever reason drove that desire is really not up for debate. Because our reaction to things in life stems from an experience and the governing factor is a deep desire not to experience the same hurtful and painful experience. Or simply put the heart wants what it wants :-).
Is afro romance a good interracial online dating site?
Comment by mlt35 on 15 March 2009:
Hello James,
Long time no hear! Great to hear that you are keeping the communication lines open between men and women.
Hello VA_songbird and homesteader also.
James,
How is the book concept coming? Please bring us up to speed…..:)
M
Comment by homesteader on 15 March 2009:
mlt35 , Tis ‘ I that am write Ting a Novel . AfroRomance is the inspiration point that started me on this Venture . I have Learned alot that will go with the Flow of my title ” Other Peoples Business as I see it ” . A book written about the civilization of Men and Women from far away places . Who in their own ways are all similiar in everyday Life . Patterned after the Lack of colors , With the exception of the Cover which will be my Favorite - Bright Yellow .
Comment by fearlesscrus on 20 March 2009:
Laugh_sailor, thank you very much. You hit the nail on the head and drove it righton throug the board. All I can add is my own personal experience: Last month, I asked a black woman I’ve dated for 5 years to marry me, but she said, “Not right now.” The rest of her answer, unsaid verbally, was, “I haven’t finished sowing my wild oats yet and I want to see how many young black studs I can have sex with even though they can’t support me and don’t have half the brains I have.”
And VA SongBird thinks women mature faster than men? I’ve never seen any evidence of it.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 26 March 2009:
” Tell The Truth and Shame The Devil ”
Yesterday I was on the receiving end of a verbal beatdown from four sisters at a friends house.
Somehow we ended up on the topic of blk relationships and they tore into blk men from the start. These women showed no mercy, I mean they went for throat.
I tried my best to listen and see things from their stand point but all I came up with was blame and more blame. The generalizations were sickening, a few nuts defined all blk men as far as they were concerned.
As always during these types of debates I admit to the short comings of alot of our men and confess our sins because it’s true that we’ve made a mess of things.
I asked what role did BLK WOMEN play in this mess and these women looked at me like I was the Anti Christ.
Ok’ lets deal !
After 1975 a large majority of blk males were reared by their mothers mainly due to divorce but for other reason as well. Alot of these men were raised without a father in the house.
If you want to talk about how sorry and lazy blk men are, let’s ask the question, who raised them?
If blk women want someone to blame for the condition of the men, that many of them would look to marry, take a good look at the women who raised them.
Hell, I’ll use a woman from my on family. My aunt has ruined her son. She spoiled him from day one and his two older sisters didn’t make things better.
Nothing was to good for her baby, she made life too easy for him. He can’t deal with disappointment, he gets fustrated too easily, he is selfish as hell and he likes to manipulate women.
He’s 27 years old and he goes after older lonely women, these women are his sugar mamas. They feed clothe, house him, and makes his car payments.
I doubt he ever worked a job longer than 4 months before he quit or got fired. He knows he can fall back on his mama or these silly women.
Where did he learn this shit from ? His father didn’t teach him this. When his step father tried to break him of his self centered ways and teach him responsibility, his mama came to his rescue.
I know of a few cases where men have left the home because their wives allowed their children to play a game of divide and conqure.
Is it any wonder why these men don’t want to work a job and they want a woman to take care of them?
As a mother if you’re maxing out your credit cards to keep your son dressed in the latest fashions but you wont make his sorry ass get a job, what are you teaching him and how are you grooming him to be the man that some sister would want by her side?
Lord knows alot of our men are in bad shape but blk women have to bear their fair share of the blame for this as well.
My friend’s ex wife is doing this to their son and he’s begged her to let him raise their son but she say’s he still needs his mother.
This boy is 12 soon to be 13 and he still needs his mama? Woman get real! She knows my friend will put a foot to this boy’s ass and force him to straighten up and she couldn’t bear the thought of her baby being unhappy.
You would think, as many blk men that don’t want the responsibilties of being a father, when you find one wanting to take charge of a wayward son, women would step aside to let a father do his job.
Ladies I want to hear from you because this is a serious issue that we must confront if we’re to even think of cleaning this mess.
This issue has an impact on why some blk women are not married.
Lord knows I’m not attacking blk mothers because I know the double load you carry on your back, so don’t feel I’m ” going there ” because I’m not.
I want to hear from you !
Comment by Dawnshyne on 26 March 2009:
Sorry to piggyback, NoPlayer, but this struck a cord with me.
I am not a mother but I concur with you about the sorry state of affairs with respect to single parent households. It is not simply black households either, I hazard a guess that there is not a woman on this site who has not had to deal with a man incapable of making decisions or standing on his own because life has simply come too easy for him and this was done at the hands of his parents….not one; both. The way I see it, it takes two to tango and while a woman may spoil, coddle and baby, most times there is a man allowing this behavior to occur; either by his absence or by tacit agreement (I am not counting men who are unable to be present because of death). For instance, has your friend filed for custody of his son? If she is breaking his spirit as a man; wouldn’t you agree it is his responsibility first and foremost to the child to fight for it?
Like I said, I am not a parent so I could be off base. I look forward to what women have to say.
And while we are on the point…
To be fair there are women of the same ilk but for some reason (generalization warning) men seem to revere instead of reject that as a trait in a woman. Why is that? Why when choosing a mate; a man will choose someone seemingly totally dependent upon him, someone looking for someone to do what her parents did and take care of her? How can she teach your children something she has no concept of which is independence? How can she participate in raising a strong, viable member of society when she has no experience to that end?
Popping popcorn and waiting patiently…
Comment by Toree18 on 29 March 2009:
NOPLAYER, I was a single mother of 3 two daughters and a son, and he was my baby too. Not all of us are like your aunt or your friends ex-wife. I would give anything to have my son back here with me. When he became 11 he wanted to live with his absent father. I didn’t have a problem with it, because for much as I loved him and taught him everything a Mother could possibly teach her son, I couldn’t teach him how to be a man. I let him go live with his Father; I think you mentioned we have a tendency to smother and baby our sons, well NOPLAYER, my “BABY” was only with his Father for 7 mos. and he was gone. The entire 11 yrs. he lived with me, he never had anything more serious than a skinned knee, but after 7 mos. he lost his life with his Father all because his Father thought he was being a “good” Father by letting my son go and do anything.
So, not all of us want to keep our sons from their Fathers. The question is; are the Fathers capable of really being a good Father?
Comment by NOPLAYER on 30 March 2009:
Dawnshyne - I knew I could depend on you for some instant feed back! LOL
The situation with my friend and his ex-wife is she’s doing the same thing my aunt did with her son, my friend said his son’s mother still makes his bed for him and cleans his room.
When he didn’t get selected for the soccer team, to help him deal with his disappointment she went out and bought him some expensive video game and told him he don’t have to play with no soccer team.Instead of telling him, ” son stop feeling sorry for yourself and go out there an keep practicing until you get better and keep trying out for other teams until you make a team but don’t quit!”This woman was “over doing” what mother’s do and that’s comfort their children, if she keeps this up this boy will turn into one sorry ass adult.This is the reason my friend is upset with his ex-wife. He did fight for custody because over spoiling a child doesn’t make a mother un-fit.Dawnshne your question, ” why do some men look for women who are totally dependant on them? “I’m sure most men don’t want a women that depends on them for their every need, this woman would be a burdon. Men tend to avoid women who are too needy ( emotionally or financialy).You have men who like their women to be a little needy, just enough to let them know that they’re important and they do play a role in her life.I like a woman that’s not good at repairing things because thats my area of expertiece and I like that she’ll call on me to keep things in working order.
Sad to say it, you do have men that will use a woman’s dependency on him as a means of control. If he supplies her every need, then she has no more power than a child, in reality.I have control over my daughter because I feed, clothe and house them, so due to their dependency on me I have a right to excercise certain ammount of control over them.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 30 March 2009:
Excuse my last post, I somehow lost my spacing.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 31 March 2009:
I was making a point that life will be hard on your sons as adults, maybe alot harder than you ever were and by over protecting them and spoiling them you handicap them.
When boxers get ready for a fight they hire sparring partners to give them a taste of what it will be like during the real fight.
Combat drill instructor expose soldiers to the conditions of combat so when the rela thing hits them it will not be a shock to them.
The realities of life has many of our men shell shocked, if you would. Because they were not exposed to some of the realities that awaited them in adulthood as children.
As a result many can’t deal with reality so they look for an escape through drugs, excessive sex and other means to get away for a few minutes.
I know parenting is a two person job but I’m saying to women that have for some reason or another found themselves doing this job alone, when it comes to your sons, don’t overly mother them so when they leave your home they go out looking for another mother as grown men.
When you listen to blk women complain about blk men what are some of the things they say, ” he’s childish, lazy, don’t want to work, he’s selfish and he gets mad when things don’t go his way”!
These are child-like behaviors being acted out by so-called grown men. Somewhere along the way these child-like tendencies where not curtailed as the they grew older.
As a mother you have to teach these boys of your what’s acceptable and what’s not and you groom him as if he was the young man that you would want to marry your daughter.
Give him a small does of what awaits him when he leaves your home. Teach him to manage his money, make him be responsible for his actions, make him be respectful of women, make him clean up behind himself.
Do whatever you got to do to prepair him for whats out there because if not he’ll more than likely look for some silly woman to take over where you left off.
Black woman have enough of this
Comment by NOPLAYER on 31 March 2009:
Toree18 I’m sure some of us can be good fathers but some of us forget that you have to protect boys from themselves. Boys are inquisitive by nature and they have a little dare devil in them so you have to keep them busy doing something constructive.
Lord knows I’m sorry to hear of your loss and I say these from the heart.
I was making a point that life will be hard on your sons as adults, maybe alot harder than you ever were and by over protecting them and spoiling them you handicap them.
When boxers get ready for a fight they hire sparring partners to give them a taste of what it will be like during the real fight.
Combat drill instructors expose soldiers to the conditions of combat so when the real thing hits them it will not be a shock to them.
The realities of life has many of our men shell shocked, if you would. Because they were not exposed to some of the realities that awaited them in adulthood as children or young adults.
As a result many can’t deal with reality so they look for an escape through drugs, excessive sex and other means to get away for a few minutes.
I know parenting is a two person job but I’m saying this to women that have for some reason or another found themselves doing this job alone, when it comes to your sons, don’t overly mother them so when they leave your home they go out looking for another mother as grown men.
When you listen to blk women complain about blk men what are some of the things they say, ” they’re childish, lazy, don’t want to work, selfish and they get mad when things don’t go their way”!
These are child-like behaviors being acted out by so-called grown men. Somewhere along the way these child-like tendencies where not curtailed as the they grew older.
As a mother you have to teach these boys of yours what’s acceptable and what’s not and you groom him as if he was the young man that you would want to marry your own daughter.
Give him a small does of what awaits him when he leaves your home. Teach him to manage his money, make him be responsible for his actions, make him be respectful of women, make him clean up behind himself.
Do whatever you got to do to prepare him for whats out there because if not he’ll more than likely look for some silly woman to take over where you left off. There’s enough of these types running around as it is!
Comment by Toree18 on 31 March 2009:
I agree with you NOPLAYER to an extent. I can only speak from my own experiences. I knew a man exactly the way you described above, he thought he was going to be physically, and financially dependent on my income and needless to say he’s still in New England living with his Mother where I met him and that’s been at least 10 yrs. ago.
I chose to raise my children as a single Mother, because I divorced their Father when the youngest was still in diapers. See, I don’t believe in staying with a “piece” of a man just to say you have one, I’m not a piece of a woman. Plus, I didn’t want my children growing up nervous because they had to listen and watch me and their Dad fighting and arguing all the time, it wasn’t worth it to me.
As far as over coddling/babying my son, he was 9 yrs. old and had a job as a newspaper carrier. Every morning; rain, sleet, or snow he was up at 4;00 am loading up his bike to go throw his newspapers. So, I really don’t think that was a future sign of him being lazy and triffling. Alot of his little friends would still be asleep at 4:00 am, and they wouldn’t think of getting a little job before or after school.
I wouldn’t have even thought of raising my children to be dependent on anyone; my daughters are included. Both of my daughters are grown and have their own families, and neither one of them are lazy and dependent on their husbands. That’s where I don’t agree with you NOPLAYER, I think that rule should also go for girls. Teach your daughters to be independent and not to have to rely on a man to take care of them. It’s great if they can find a husband like you described above, but realistically the odds are against it. Daughters need to be taught to be self sufficient also. Our Black girls already come from good stock, their fore-mothers were strong women__so half the battle for them is already won. All the mothers now have to do is refine it.
Comment by Jazie on 6 April 2009:
I encourage all my sistah’s…black, white or other wise to pick up a copy of Steve Harvey’s book. Prior to reading that book some of my comments may have been miss directed. Now I feel we have to take responsibility for that fact that “black women” aren’t getting married. Although there maybe a percentage of black women that make the choice not to marry, there is a larger percentage that want to get married just like other women from different races.
I was involved in two long term relationships…one of which resulted in a child. At the beginning of both of those relationships I was certain it would end in marriage. Needless to say neither of them did because I didn’t have the courage to ask for what I wanted…I settled. I allowed both men in my situation to make empty promises and basically play house. I never understood why until I read the book.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 6 April 2009:
I haven’t read Steve Harvey’s book yet, but I bet he was saying what blk grandmothers and mothers had been saying for years to their daughters, ” what man will buy a cow if he can get the milk free” !
I think many of those old school words of wisdom fell on deaf ears.
Comment by Salsassin on 6 April 2009:
The man that is not a Vegan.
I might like my milk, but I also love my steak. I joke, I joke.
I get what you mean.
Comment by Salsassin on 6 April 2009:
I really am curious what the marriage trends of other Afrodiasporic/African women are in contrast to that of African American women. I just don’t see Afro-Latinas really having this much of an issue with marriage. Or that much of a perception that there is an issue to be explored.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 6 April 2009:
@ Salsassin - I hear ya man! LOL
I don’t see it eitheir. From the way it looks Afro Women from other ethnicities have no problems finding mates from among blk men, despite what is said about the shortage of desirable blk men out there.
I’m at my whits end trying to figure this out. White, Hispanic, Native American, Philippino, even Pacific Islander women have to problem meeting and marrying blk men.
I’m not talking about the CEO but a avergage JOE.
I’m yet to find out what is it that these women see that blk women don’t see? I hear sisters say, “I wont settle for “any man” just for the sake of having a man!”
The question I ask is, did these women settle for anything less than a man that would love, respect them and go out everyday and try his best to make a living?
Lord knows, I know that many of us (blk men) are not fit for marraige at the present because we got serious issues to deal with and over come.
I want to know why are those that are capable of properly functioning in a relationship or marriage, why are they not being selected by blk women but by women of other ethnicities?
If the statistics are correct and more blk men marry within their ethnic group, what’s the hoopla about!
Comment by NOPLAYER on 6 April 2009:
@ Jazie you were not wrong in doing what you did, it just wasn’t wise!
Most women don’t like jumping from man to man, they prefer stable and secure relationships and so they stay with the one they love hoping he’ll make things legal between them.
Some men just don’t understand that it’s in the core of a woman’s nature to be in a stable relationship.
That’s another topic for a later time!
I’ll say this, it comes down to one thing and one thing only, “IS HE READY”, anything less than yes, your only wasting your time.
As a man, I know who I want to marry, when that women comes along that makes me want to foresake all others and disregard all my other options, that’s it, it’s a sealed deal! We’re going to see somebody and we’re going to make our thang official! ( excuse the slang )
Here’s some advice!
Ask that million dollar question and save your self alot of wasted time!
” Where do you see yourself in the next year or two? ”
If he aint saying anything that would lead you to believe that he’s wanting to settle down with someone, then you may want to thank him for his time a keep it moving!
If he starts saying, ” I want to give up my apartment and look for a bigger place or a house.”
” I’m looking to meet someone, while getting to know her and with the hopes of starting a serious relationship”
” The dating scene is played out, I’m after something permanent! ”
When you find a guy talking like that, then there’s a strong chance that he’s willing to work towards the goal of getting married.
When a man has his mind locked on a woman and his heart set on her, anything other than what he trully wants, is just an obstacle for him to go around or over!
If you don’t FEEL in your soul that you are the object of his heart’s desire, then maybe it’s because, YOU’RE NOT!
I close with a quote from my grand-mama,
” child, it’s NO SHAME if your not “THE ONE” but it’s TRIFLING when you’re “ONE of the MANY!” LOL
Comment by homesteader on 6 April 2009:
Women ; GIVE THEM A GLASS OF WATER TO MAKE IT DOWN THE ROAD , as never want anyone to be thirsty. Grade A milk should only be given after marriage and 22 OUNCE T-BONE steaks are best medium well , with two eggs over easy . 2 Responsible Adults are Needed for a child to grow to be self-sufficient in their Adult lives .
Comment by Dawnshyne on 6 April 2009:
I like your grand, NOPlayer. She speaks of wisdom. We women are hard-headed. We know the gratitude we feel when someone does something nice for us and we think that by doing that for a man, it will get him to see us differently. WRONG. Men are decidedly simple; either he wants you or he doesn’t. This is a tough concept for us (note I am not excusing myself from this generalization). That thinking is completely foreign to our mode of thought.
Hopefully one day all of us will gain the amount of self-respect it takes to hold ourselves with dignity. You must first think highly of yourself before a man thinks of you at all.
Comment by BrownB09 on 6 April 2009:
Well said Dawnshyne! I agree!
Comment by NOPLAYER on 6 April 2009:
Dawnshyne you’re right when it comes down to it as men we know who we what.
I think women at times internalize a man’s not wanting her and she starts to take it too personal.
I have expericed this on more than a few occasions were I’ve tried to be honest about my true feelings for a woman only to get trashed by her when my feelings didn’t fall in line with what see wanted.
I’m saying to myself, “what what fu$k”, where did that could from!
You hear it all day longfrom blk women, “just keep it real with me, be a man about it, say what you mean and mean what you say” but no sooner than you do, they’ll swear up and down you’re a fake or you’re playing games.
It’s like damned if you do & damed if you don’t!
I thought that you date or court eachother to get a feel for eachother and to see if the two of you should persue the relationship further.
If one deems that the other is not the right one for them, then it’s no crime to let it go and move on.
In truth I only want you if you feel in your heart I’m the one for you, anything less is phony. You’re doing me a favor by telling if I’m not the one because if we went on with the relationship and got married, time would reveal the truth.
The cost of a few dates is a hell of a lot cheaper than a divorce!
I wish more women understood that, it’s not only about them, it’s about what’s best for the other person. He should have what he feel is the best for him, men don’t feel they should accept any woman just for the sake of having a woman.
Somebody please tell me that women are not that vain!!!!!!
I feel that just because we didn’t make it together romanticaly you are still my sister and I want you to have the best and because I trully love you, I can let you go to follow your heart, would it be asking too much for a woman to feel the same way?
Just because you’re not THE ONE doesn’t mean you’re not A SPECIAL SOMEONE.
Think about it!
Comment by Dawnshyne on 7 April 2009:
Ummm, wow, touch a nerve?
And yes woman, generally, are that vain, lol. Although to be fair, I wouldn’t call it vanity. Think about it, we are told from the time we leave the womb what little princesses we are. We are told that Prince Charming is going to come and sweep us off our feet. We are told how beautiful we are and how ANY man would be lucky to have us. Then the years start rolling by and you haven’t been crowned, swept or met that lucky man.
Not only that we have about 15 good years from marketable age to the end to procreate; so then we start talking to ourselves (I did this and yes, I am willing to admit it. The truth will set u free, at least it did me.) We start telling ourselves that okay Prince Charming hasn’t come but I bet if I work hard enough I can turn him into a reasonable facsimile. And maybe he doesn’t have to sweep me off my feet; maybe if we brushes them off every once in a while it will be enough….it happens.
I understand where your anger, confusion and resentment come from (and oh boy, I got all those things from your post, ;-)). It’s not fair of us to rationalize love and commitment and make you what we want to be. It’s not fair and it doesn’t work. If we were in our sane mind (again I am not omitting myself) then no; none of this would ever occur. You would have your set of standards and we would have ours and if they didn’t mesh; then cool. Unfortunately our set of standards are met with society opinions (you are how old and you’ve never been married); nature (tick, tock, tick, brrrrr); our own upbringing (daddy can’t wait to walk me down the isle) and whatever else is blowing in the wind. Again it ain’t right; and some of us realize what the hell we are doing (in my case did) and run just as fast as our long legs will carry us. Some of us don’t and get married, have babies and get divorced….its the real world and no, our not being right for one guy SHOULDN’T affect our psyche or self-esteem but the honest to goodness truth is that it does. Oh when we get smart enough to realize what’s going on, we appreciate it but 30 some-odd years of programming is hard to overcome just because you or Steve Harvey tell us to.
*wink*
Still love ya like a play cuzzin!
Comment by NOPLAYER on 7 April 2009:
LOL, Dawnshyne I’m glad someone understands, it’s good to know I’m not crazy! LOL
My friend, why the strong words like resentment and anger? fustration is more like it!
You have to understand why men get fustrated and say to hell with it, because at times it seems that matter what they do, they still miss the mark!
Despite what women are told as little girls and what society opinions are, you still have to accept the reality that nobody likes rejection but it’s a part of life and you have to deal with it and not let it deal with you.
I tell my oldest daughter, yes you’re beautiful but that doesn’t mean you wont face rejection. I’ve never filled her head with this foolishness about Prince Charming and all that.
It’s no wonder people have a hard time dealing with reality, hell they’re living in a fantasy world.
I think alot of women are so fustrated that they give into one or two extremes, either they give up on the hope of finding love or they foolishly fall head over heels for anything that looks like love.
Here’s the balance? This lack of balance could affect the vibes that women give off and if a man picks up the wrong vibe from a women, he’ll back off or he’ll avoid you all together.
Comment by homesteader on 7 April 2009:
NOPLAYER ; You say alot of Good things in your conversations . Yes , Life is a Fantasy trip for Us All / there are No guarantees . I only have one difference of opinion at the present time with you . That is the Fact that one is not able to Find Love . It is a Quality of Life that Grows between people who Desire to Earn the right to make it Happen for them . My wife and I meet here and after talking on the telephone and online for about a month . I asked her if she would grant me the Honor of being My Wife . Which she agreed with . At my age and after being called Senile at another Blog by a Lawyer who imagines himself to be a Doctor of Psychiatric Medicine and never examining his Patient in person shows his Personal Lack of Intelligence in Life / to establish a Practice with Lack of proper Certification in my eyes would have to be against the Law . Or as I have heard in the past - Just another Quack / see Imposter LOL ; The truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth , counsellor if you Please , Thank you . It also shows how people will spend their Lives in a Fantasy World of their own Making full of Smoke and Hot Air with a Serious Lack of Knowledge of which they speak . Hehe . As My own University Educated Daughters have told me that ” I raised them Right . ” I realize the Quality of my proper Parental Guidance in the Lifes of others .
Comment by sexygal74 on 8 April 2009:
I am a single black female who is very independent and college educated. I do agree that dating haven’t very easy for me. I was in a dating relationship with a white guy for two years until it was over two years ago. He dumped me two times to be with the same white woman. He told me that he didn’t have the feelings for me when it come to dating or serious commitment. He said that most white women are more family-orientated than black women. I told him that it was his loss. He did end up marrying that white female after six months of dating her. He got his karma back when his white wife turned out to be more worse than me. I heard that some white women can be very bossy and controlling. Some white men will not marry or breed with a black female because of society. They would marry a white female who can be very demanding too. I do remember a black guy telling me that I am too skinny for him and too smart for him. Some black men can’t deal with a smart black female who will not put up with their crap. Some black women are not very demanding and got a high standard. Some whtie women can be very demanding and materialistic. I know that I can be a good girlfriend or wife to any guys if they give me a chance. I do not have a high standard. I just want some appreciation and respect that most white women are getting. Some of the guys (black and white) have told me that I am asking for too much when they have no problems giving it to a white women. I feel that most white women are getting the appreciation and respect than black women.
Comment by REDRAIN on 11 April 2009:
The truth is, society thinks black women are ugly
and undesirable and so most people hate us and
do not want to be with us.
Comment by homesteader on 13 April 2009:
My wife is Black as to how others see the race issue , a Brown skinned female to me . I know she is the Most Beautiful Ladie in my world and We Love each other
Comment by b. stallion on 24 April 2009:
I believe whole heartly that we black women aren’t getting married by choice. I’ve been asked several times to marry a few men. I never wanted to marry these me. Once I got to know their personality, I knew I wasn’t in it for the long hall. I would find out something about him that I didn’t like: His momma runnin his life or He got major anger issues or He really don’t like kids the way he said he did. My mistake was continuing to stay in the relationship for the sake of their feelings and ego. I won’t do it for anybody else…..but myself at this point and I’m so happy this way
Comment by Miri2008 on 15 June 2009:
Wow! What an intense and interesting blog! Kudos to the contributor with the stats. I thought that was great. A few facts are always a good addition to any discussion… LOL There were a great deal of thoughtful contributions. I must say that I was incredibly impressed to see the reference citation! (not kidding).
Anyway, I will contribute my little 2 cents at the bottom here
First off, I think a huge number of black women who aren’t, WOULD like to be in a committed relationship with mutual compatibility, respect, etc… I don’t think many people are simply making a CHOICE to continue on a merry go round of ‘Mr. almost’, ‘Mr. oh-no’, ‘Mr. you got to be kidding’, ‘Mr. WHAT?’, ‘Mr. did not see THAT coming’, and on and on…
So, what is going on? Many previous bloggers have hit on a number of contributing factors. My own experience has been that:
a) I have ALWAYS been open to dating outside my race. Until very, very recent times I had not seen any behavior from anyone outside of my race that would lead me to believe that anyone outside of my race was interested in me in any way that could lead to something serious.
b) Then, it seems to me (note, before you write and beat me up, I said “it SEEMS to ME) that a woman being materially comfortable sparks one of two responses in a man who has less materially: i) His (natural) male instincts of being the hunter/provider is violated, he is uncomfortable, and either tries very, very hard to catch up with the woman materially, or he gives up and tries to pull the woman down because he feels unable to catch up to her; OR ii) His (natural) male instincts of being the hunter/provider is not functioning, and he settles down happily to enjoy the ride
This is my reason for trying to stay within a commonly shared socio-economic status (note: this is my head talking - I have had my heart kick in and ‘poof’… lol)
I stuck with my individual experience and perspective to make a point. Black women are not a vat, basket, pot, container, crate, barrel, of some undifferentiated ’stuff’. We are individual people with divergent perspectives, experiences, and yes, even histories (a topic for another blog). There is an alarming tendency to simplify things to give ourselves the illusion of ‘control’ that the feeling of having ‘comprehended’ or ’solved’ something can bring.
The truth is that we are on an evolving journey which is moving faster than stats can be collected, and is more meandering than can be casually observed.
So maybe we just accept that we are all in this amazing experience called life, with a myriad of possibilities still to be explored. Maybe an encouraging blog about sisters who found someone to share life with is in order. Enough with the dire proclamations of blight upon black women. I personally reject all of that negativity with a vengeance. I was married, and now I’m not. My experience was not peculiar to my race or my gender. When the time is right, I will be married again, and that experience will not be peculiar to my race or my gender.
Peace,
Miri
Comment by Shotgun007 on 3 August 2009:
About 13 out of 16 of my closest black girlfriends and sorors are married. Most to black men and a few interracial marriages.
Yes, we still have single black women, but is it just an issue with black women? I have 4 single white female friends, never been married and 2 of which aren’t thinking about it.
For those women that are seeking marriage, we do need to try dating across interracial lines. I say this with passion because limitations can cost you your soul mate.
The statistics that Salsassin referenced might be true from a statistical standpoint, but again finding a partner for life goes back to opening “oneself” up to all possibilities.
Shotgun007
Comment by nandi on 10 August 2009:
Good post Shotgun 007 and I agree with Mira’s post as well. I really detest these types of skewed logic debates because clearly the institution of marriage has suffered over the years.
Although, I was born in the USA my parents are from the West Indies, and in Jamaica (well no matter if you are Chinese, Latino etc..you are either Jamaican or a foreigner). So interracially dating as it is called in the USA is no big deal in Jamaica, since you would be marrying another Jamaican so to speak. So, even if I did not (for example only) marry a White male here, I would pull from my own West Indian cultural background and that too could be White, Black, Chinese etc….
So, I really do not get the big hoopla on some of these blog articles.
I believe more and more African-American women should date and marry and explore their options, afterall human beings are human beings. But, I do have my preferences like human beings and adults have as well.
I only have one girlfriend who is in a same race relationships.
Comment by JAAAA CEEES on 4 September 2009:
Very interesting blog,from the point of veiw of a middle aged white male,lets see,1 human love knows no race or group it has to do with,connecting with the thing inside the shell.2 there are many forms of love,from being just friends, to the most profound,soul love for all of mankind.3 We exist in eternal oneness with our selves,ownly on for a few seconds do we know what it is to be happy,most of life involes pain.4 the human body,vir the fact that it is matter,leads to delusion of truth, we seek something that cant be obtained.4 love can not exist in human form, AS THE BOOK PUTS IT,J C WEPT FOR MAN,he did not weep for himself, for what is immortal life dos not fear dead, supernatural power is not human mortal, fear dead,there fore his love is not of the putrid flesh,THE HIGHESS LOVE IS NOT OF THIS EARTH,BUT CAN OWNLY BE FOUND,IN THE ACT OF DEATH ITSELF.therefore be careful how you live your life, and how you decide to die.