Do women who say they do not need a man only kidding themselves?
A friend of mine likes saying how independent she is. And what follows is a long and mournful drawl about male ineptitude. Well, some guy screwed her over in the past and she now ropes up every man in the collective blame game. Much as she claims she got it together, deep down, she bitches because she is lonely and wants those of us in ‘semi-perfect’ relationships to envy her ‘perfect’ single life.
My friend isn’t the only one. Women are moving much faster up the prosperity ladder. Today’s society seems to be an endless stream of young, single, hot and well off women who are confident and secure in their careers. Loneliness however, seems to be the dreaded disease in Venus. What’s missing is the ideal man and the two kids to balance the equation. Much as most affluent women would like to settle down, most single men in their hot list are only interested in a no-strings attached relationship.
To be sincere, I am yet to meet a single guy labeling himself independent. When I asked a male pal about this, he said “No matter how free spirited he may appear, every single guys knows that someday, he will be nailed. No man can remain happy forever. Inevitably – even when marriage is circumvented – we all remain vulnerable to female emotion.”
This got me thinking. Do we women have the faintest idea what the freedom and independence we desire entails? We claim to have this independence and end up bitching about men when they let us down emotionally. Isn’t that dependence? We claim to be independent but when we realize the clock is ticking, get married to some ‘trophy husband’ only to dub him a loser when he turns out to be just that – a trophy husband. Much as ‘independent women’ would like to control their men, they do not exactly expect the men to totally concede to everything they demand. They still need a total man around the house. Isn’t that yelling out dependence?
I don’t think independence means not depending on a man for financial support ONLY. Which reminds me of this scene from some movie “Tum Bin” (“Without You”):
Guy offers to stay in the hospital and look after the girl’s dead fiance’s father. Strong, self-respecting and self-reliant girl declines with a curt “Tum jao, Shekhar. Jab sahare ki zaroorat hogi tab main maang loongi.” (”You can leave, Shekhar. If I need your support, I will ask for it.”)
Guy leaves.
A minute later, he is back with a cup of coffee for the surprised girl. He hands her the cup and says, “Jaanta hoon aapko sahare ki zarootat nahin hai. Main toh sirf saath dene aaya hoon!” (”I know you don’t need support. I’m here only to give you company.”)
I have searched deep within myself and realized that the few times I claimed to be independent were when I was single and healing a broken heart and convincing myself I was fine without a man in my life. But it dawned on me that ‘independence’ was just a place to chill out until I met the next man that fit the bill. The next man that was willing to give me ‘company’.
Do you think independence is some misplaced notion in Venus?
Tags: black women black men, interracial dating, black women white men
Popularity: 25% [?]
Comment by YngCaramelQT on 2 February 2009:
Most women that claim to be independent are usually either bitter, or secretly searching for that special someone and failing in their attempts.
The bitter woman loves to talk about how men are “this and that” and how she doesn’t need that in her life. What she fails to realize is that the time she spends bashing every man in eyesight could be spent finding a man that’s not what she’s describing. The bitterness can stem from anything from hurt feelings from ex-boyfriends, to jealousy of married friends, to having a dead beat father. No matter what the excuse is, there is always one for why the bitter woman doesn’t “need” a man.
The secret searching woman wants people to think that she truly doesn’t want a man. As successful in life as she may be, she doesn’t want people to see her failure in finding a mate. Even though she feels empty without a man, to her that’s not independent, and may even seem vulnerable.
Neither are truly independent. Independence is not just being able to support yourself financially. If you can’t be happy when you don’t have a man, then you’re DEPENDING on another for your happiness.
Now, that’s not to say that there are no truly independent women. Marriage is not for everyone. There are women who are truly happy taking care of themselves (and sometimes even children) without a partner. There are also married women and stay at home moms that are independent. They may choose to marry or take care of their kids, but that doesn’t mean that they are incapable of making it on their own.
What people need to realize is that there are many different aspects to independence. Independence is financial, emotional, and mental stability by ones self. It is rare. And whether a person decides to share their life with another or not, that independence can still be there. You don’t HAVE to be single to be independent, and just because you’re single doesn’t make you independent either.
Comment by EbonyPrinz_s on 2 February 2009:
Ria this was a great post.
Very wise to be so young YngCaramelQT.
I consider myself to be very independent financially or otherwise, but that is not to say that I don’t WANT a man in my life. And yes I have reached a certain level of success that all we “Independent” women claim to have. I am ambitious by nature, so I am always striving to improve myself new challenges, new adventures, learning new things, etc.
I am in no means “DEPENDENT” on a man, BUT I do like and want the company of a “Real” man. Unfortunately yes, there are those women who claim to be “INDEPENDENT” and use the term loosely as an excuse for male bashing. But to be fair at the same time, fellas some of you have taken us to this point.
It’s a shame though as I am sure that there are some really good men out there and if all that they are hearing is that we don’t “Need” them well then that is what they are going to expect.
We may not NEED them financially as in we can support ourselves but I am sure most women WANT to be with a man, otherwise why would be on sites like this.
A man does not complete me or define, but rather I hope to find the RIGHT one that inspires me, makes me want to be with him, helps me to grow as a person and in turn WE can grow as friends, partners, a couple, etc.
Does this mean as women we should lose our Independence in order to be with a man? No!! A man who knows how to treat a woman (chivalry, romance, etc.) but truly respects her Independence is a rare find. I have not lost hope that they are out there…somewhere.
And ladies when we do find that man we need to make the respect is mutual. Sometimes we have to realize that by us being so independent we are not letting them be the man that they want to be. We need to respect or men and not treat them like dogs or trophy husbands.
Are we Independent? Financially Independent or are we something else entirely? We need to be clear in our own interpretation before we throw that label around.
Best of luck to everyone!!
Comment by Nellis on 2 February 2009:
I get so sick of that “bitter” label. There ARE a few women (and plenty of men I’m sure) who really, truly don’t want to be tied down. We know that the whole nuclear family thing is a myth, life isn’t meaningless just because one doesn’t want to be married, and guess what, they can feel like that EVEN AS THEY GET OLDER - imagine that!
Comment by realblkman08 on 3 February 2009:
honestly yngcaramelQT u r a real woman
u got the point
thank u
Comment by needaqueen on 3 February 2009:
I gotta say respect to yngcaramelQT, very true what you where saying.
Id like to add that we spend 30 yrs on emancipation of the women. 30 yrs of trying to make women independent, But on what cost? Its like the only emancipation that took place was in making money. Besides having the right to vote. Making your own money is one thing, but it actually stops right there because most women claim to be independent once they have a good job and well that is independence based on financial security and but the emotional part is lacking because of money independence, our human nature longs for company not very many people are comfortable being by them self and lonely ness can cause very severe depression because we are not ment to be by our self’s, based on human genetics.
I am asking my self why does a woman this day’s tries to be independent or longing to be? Is it that maybe us males don’t live up to our responsibilities any more and we tend to switch from the normal form of a family man women and children, to
a single mom society and a fatherless society is so much of a weakening one and not healthy at all.
What happend to equality and the mutual respect, i think a big part of why women drive for independence is because us male are not living up to our God given responsibilities any more and emancipation has put many man in to a corner and they comfortable with that role of letting the women be doing both female and male roles. It can not be the goal of any normal man to be comfortable with having his gf or wife going to work while he sits at home and does nothing but being a couch patato, and for sure there woun’t be any mutual respect.
I think we need the real man step up again and show to women that they can lean on despite their independence cuz a real man wants a strong women in his life and not just a barbie doll (trophy wife) and there never has been a great man in history without a great women on his side. Be eachother’s back bone with mutual respect. A big example of that is our new president family Mrs an Mr Obama
Comment by salsera77 on 3 February 2009:
Interesting that the article saids, “….every single guy knows that someday, he will be nailed..”
as if the responsibility and onus for entering a marriage/partnership is all on women.
How sad.
Comment by salsera77 on 3 February 2009:
As a matter of fact that guy’s whole statment
is Gross and men like him need to be avoided at all cost.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 4 February 2009:
needaqueen and yngcaramelQT you both are on point.
I think this attitude of, ” I’m independant and I don’t need no man”, is a telltale sign of a much bigger issue.
Fustration and disappointment!
If you really look at it, there’s no such thing as INDEPENDENCE for a man or a woman. Anyone can feed clothe and house themselves, that’s light weight stuff!
Men and women were created to be together, their nature moves then towards eachother, it’s only when the natural order of things have been interfered with, do you run into problems.
There’s something so unique and divine about the roles that men and women play, that any diviation from them begins to undermine the harmony between the two.
Men provide security and maintenance while women provide motivation and inspiration!
The misunderstanding and disrespect of the nature of the woman and the divine role she plays, has lead to some women feeling disappoint and as a means of protecting themselves, they’ve put on this “artificial armor” called INDEPENDENCE.
Armor is for PROTECTION not for REPELLING the possibility of finding love!
James
Comment by homesteader on 4 February 2009:
While Laughing in the Doctors office the Nurse said ” How long you two been together ? ” She said she was married 58 days and we Laughed again . Life is made to Enjoy together / not alone . All people were created Equal and the time has come to Realize that we were not placed on this earth to make this journey one at a time . Sexual Discrimination is just another form of Hate / Dislike . The day we met here was the Happiest day of our Lives . If you want to be Happy , the change starts within your own mind . Even Jesus was not perfect as he was tried for his crimes against the Royalty of the time and put to death for our sins .
Comment by Meron on 4 February 2009:
I must say that:
1. No, If a woman has choosen this lifestyle it is because she has examined her life and she is happy the way it is lived! Without a Man!
2. Yes, Yet if a woman is in denial due to the circumstances of finding the right person, than she may end up at a later time and place feeling she missed out.
I knew all along I wanted a traditional relationship. I CHOSE to get an education, see the world, start a business and researched having a child on my own. I did all of this to please others! Family and friends. I no longer listen to the “men are a waste of time” or “we can do it ourselves without them”. I am capable of sustaining myself if I never find a significant other thanks to the education and research. But, it is not what I WANT!
A choice was made about 3 years ago that I wanted a partner to spend the rest of my life with. I wasted plenty of years, being alone and sometimes lonely when THAT was not really what I wanted. A bad experience with a man here and someone else’s input there, next thing you know I am now feeling the wave of sentiment that is being paraded around as the “I can do it all without a man” Some Can! Some Can’t!
I now only have a few suitable years left to even think of having a child. Goals I’ve set have changed or been altered. Also, I think of having that special someone to share a thought, make plans with or just plain cuddle or kiss.
Society is so well advanced and educated now on how to self pleasure, self satisfy and reproduce. Science can help us to achieve things in life that God originally intend to be a “dual role”.
I feel all angles should be examined. The people I’ve met here on the site are so diversified that I have been educated by both male and female members on how everyone is affected by these attitudes.
Please everyone, let each individual Woman make up her own mind as to if she needs to have male companionship or not.
Then, RESPECT IT!
Comment by homesteader on 4 February 2009:
Amen to Meron / and her thoughts
Comment by NOPLAYER on 5 February 2009:
Meron
I admire the spirit in which you’ve stated your point.
You are right, we should examine all angles, because how a woman may feel at the age of 3o, may not be the case, when she turns 40.
A woman’s ability to take care of herself is one thing, but IF she throws off the vibe that, she does’nt want to be with a man, then she feeds into the perception that independant women do’nt want or have time for relationships.
I’ve seen it time and time again,just go to happy hour in any major city between 6-9pm and you’ll see these a few of these so called INDEPENDENT WOMAN after one too many Long Island Ice Teas pouring out their hearts:
I’m a beautiful woman, I’m educated, I have no children, I own my home, I’m self supporting and the list goes on!
After all of the, I am, I did, and I have, they hit you with, “WHY”??????
Why am I alone, why am I not even seriously dating, why am I only good for displaying at family reunions or company formals, on and on, and on???
I don’t think it’s the notion that a woman is independent, that would cause men to pass her by but if that independence is accompanied by an attitude of ( who needs a man), yeah, most men will walk right on by without a second glance.
That attitude even attracts men who get a thrill out of playing games of “conqure and destroy”.
Would you want to be with someone that acts as if they don’t need you?
I don’t need a woman to feed, clothe or house me, in that sense, I’m independent.
The things that I need most from a woman, I can’t provide for myself. I am DEPENDENT, ( yeah, I said it ) DEPENDENT, apon her to meet those needs.
What are those needs: balance, a feminine perspective on things, inspiration, companionship, and all those other complementary things that she can give.
I know in a world that drives people to believe that they must be perfect, sometimes we can start to feel that to need or be dependent is a form of dysfuction.
Not so, only when the need or depenancy is extreme.
Are some women afraid to admit that they DEPEND or look to men to meet certain emotional NEEDS ???
Ok ladies, I’m waiting to hear from you on this question!
I really want to thank all of you on this blog because I’m learning so much and you inspire me to want to have a better understanding of the dynamics of relationships in general!
James
Comment by twistoflemon on 5 February 2009:
Forgive me but it’s such a stupid question, as well as degrading to women. It implies that a financial consideration is always a factor when we think of entereing a relationship. As though we only need men to fulfill our financial needs. When I think of needing a man, it never has to do with whats in his pocket but what’s in his heart,brain and soul.
What all people need is someone to share their live and not be the sole purpose of it,
Comment by sweetroses on 5 February 2009:
Hi I find this article very interesting, I think that most women try to stay indepedent and not impose on a man because they got it like that and sometime a man like to have control and power just because he is provideing for a women in a good relationship, there are many reasons why a female put on that “front” and that type of attitude, of course a man is the back bone of the family but it takes a strong man and woman to come together and make team work. I think women dont want to feel left out that is the issue with most of us we just need to trust in God and have faith, Thanks and happy readings.
Comment by ffelicia on 5 February 2009:
True independence does not mean not having a man in your life. I love spending time with the right person and having them in my life, being able to call on them if needed and being there if they need me, but I also like the freedom of knowing that if I have to I am able to stand up and keep going if I have a man in my life or not.There is such a thing as being independent and also having someone special to spend time with.
Comment by sweetroses on 5 February 2009:
Hi great post, I thing we all just need to get along and come together and become one, God gave both women and men the ability to work we got wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, you are right ffelicia a woman can have man and to spend time with and still know where she is coming from and what she been through if the man is good, thanks and good luck with your search.
Comment by jayakumar on 5 February 2009:
Men and woman are two halves. If man need fredom woman too have the equal rights. But men boast of women freedom but practically mostly woman are enslaved in the family.
Both has to love each other unconditionally and has to remember one’s happiness should not be a thorn to others.
Comment by laneljade on 5 February 2009:
I have to disagree with the label bitter. I have often wondered why this label is often only used towards women who have been hurt in past relationships. However, I never hear this term used towards men. If a woman has been lied to or treated poorly what is she supposed to do smile about it?
Let’s be honest about the situation. The rules of dating and relationships have changed over the decades but many women are still playing the game by the same rules of days long past.
Men have changed but many women are still dreaming of the day when their white knight is going to jump from his mighty steed to whisk them away into the sunset where they will live happily ever after.
Let me pull your coat a little bit, most men know that they no longer have to fulfill any types of promises to women in order to bed them.
Many women have taken on the idea of being “Independent” because they didn’t really have a choice but to be. We can no longer afford to live the “Cinderella” fantasy anymore. The position of “wife” or partner is for a woman in today’s society is no longer a position that is totally secure. I have seen women of all types of depositions, statuses, races, sizes and beauty suddenly become single at the snap of a finger when the mood struck these men. And I will tell you another thing, these men did not care about how these women were feeling or getting by in the world.
Women need to get real and always no matter what whether you are single, married, divorced or dating. Always have a backup plan because you might need it.
Comment by martha54 on 6 February 2009:
I want to say how right you are laneljade
I couln’t say it any better
As forYngCaramelQT
the reason so many men agree with you is because you’re young and they know they can tell some young women like you anything and you’ll beleive it.That’s why older guys look for you. To be so young abd beautiful and smart as you seem I’m disappointed in you as a women.
No women started out to be independent my dad told me my husband would be there for me what he didn’t see coming is that men have changed. They don’t make men like my dad any more that’s why so many women are out here now tking care of themselves if you wait on a man you’ll be in a grass house some where. I learned the hard way when after 22 years of marrigage my husband walks in and says hey how was your day and oh by the way I’m leaving you for another women.Guess what I had been a stay at home mom married at 18 years old who knew but someone younger stepped in.I spent the first three days crying and not eating when I relized I needed money he had taken out the money and legt me a $1.00.So before you talk about independent women know their story don’t judge a book by it’s cover I’m stating my own company with another to follow in Europe I thank my husband every day for making me the women I’ve become no I don’t need a man if one comes along with the right mind set who knows but no man will ever take my independants away from me and no young women eigther who thinks she has all the answers wait until you grow up to judge your sisters walk in our shoes then come back and tell us what you think.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 6 February 2009:
I think when most women and men think of independence, they think of freedom from the constraints placed on them by men, society and religion, and so on.
“I can take care of myself”, so therefore, I don’t need no one trying to place restrictions on me.
“I’m independent” !
As I’ve stated before being able to support yourself a positive thing. I believe all women should have the safety net of being able to support themselves should they find themselves alone, either by circumstance or by choice.
It’s true men are not what they used to be and society has changed and not for the better, so it would be wise to be able to support yourself.
Lets take a serious look at the popular notion of female independence and let’s examine has it help or harmed women.
There was a time when women looked to marriage for a few things, ie: companionship, sex, chidren and the security that comes from having a paycheck coming into the house.
I know times have changed and women no longer need to be married to have these things.
” I’m Independent ”
Now let’s look at the negetive side of the coin.
True companionship in many cases have been replaced with ” pillow friendships” ! With so many sexually liberated women running around, is it any wonder why alot of men duck out on committment????
Children, well who needs a man for that, when you have an endless supply of willing sperm donors.
” I don’t need a man in my life to have a child”, some would say.
Maybe you don’t feel you NEED a man to have a CHILD, but has it dawned on you, that maybe your child DESERVES a FATHER.
The evidence is all around you, of the results of fatherless homes and how it impacts a community, so I’ll leave that alone.
These negetive results have nothing to do with a females ability to provide for her own needs but they’re a result of the behavior that comes from thinking, ” because I’m independent I can do what the hell I please “!
Question?
Have you gotten the disired results that accompany that kind of thinking??
Only you know!
With every FREEDOM comes a RESPONSIBILITY and as long as you act RESPONSIBLY, by all means wear your badge of “INDEPENDENCE” with pride but lets not talk INDEPENDENCE, while engaging in STUPIDITY!
Your friend,
James
Comment by homesteader on 7 February 2009:
I do not know what my wifes sees in me alas she tells me ” I Love you ” many times a day , as do I - Ditto
Comment by girlsixdiva on 7 February 2009:
I’d rather be “independent” than with some loser idiot.
Comment by laneljade on 8 February 2009:
James please, I know a whole lot of women who are educated and financially secure and haven’t had sex in years. Men have changed and we all know it. Trying to find a good one these days is like looking for a needle in a haystack. I haven’t been in a relationship in a while because it has been damn near impossible to find a black man that doesn’t have multiple babymamas, who doesn’t live with their mama, ex, current girlfriend or grandma and who isn’t trying to get something out of me for absolutely nothing. One that can talk about more than the 50 cent/Game beef, and damn she got a fat ass here and big titties there. I do realize that there are good black men out here but the problem is that there just aren’t enough to go around for all of us sistas. Trying to find a black man that dates exclusively as well as who likes black women is like hitting the lottery-a one in a million chance of winning. We may have to do what brotha’s been doing for years-outsourcing! And I mean date outside the race.
Now as far as independence goes-this is directed toward my sista’s only-there are no guarantees in life be smart and stay safe. Most women are not independent enough if that was the case we would not be the fastest growing HIV infected population in the United States now. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for what you want out of these men and demanding that they come to you with both hands open. Most importantly having the ability to walk away from bullshit and still be able to support yourself is PRICELESS!
Comment by homesteader on 8 February 2009:
No matter what you do , where you travel , how you Love - People - All them Fine People / Enjoy each day as the Sun will still set in the West
Comment by Trinie on 8 February 2009:
I think to some degree you have a point. So many women have been “let down” by the men in their lives that I think in response to that women feel that life will have to be lived without a strong man….I know I feel that way at times. However, my response to that was to better myself and become independent. I always have the hope and desire to meet that man that will love the fact I am independent and together he and I will travel the roads of live together.
Comment by laneljade on 8 February 2009:
Dear Trinie,
I see your point. I am not against men just the bad ones that should and do know better. In the end it all boils down to women taking care of themselves and never putting all your love and care into someone who doesn’t reciprocate. Being in love with someone doesn’t mean that you have to feel hurt all the time or struggle when that person could easily help you but chooses not to. I think that many women in this modern dating era have either come to accept the bad treatment that they had been receiving or have to accept being alone for a long time. I have many male friends that are really nice guys but they tend to tell me what they really think about love, sex and relationships and ladies I have to tell you be careful out here. Many of these men I know don’t want to settle down and they don’t want just one woman because they don’t have to. They want to play the field for until they get in their late 30’s and then they want to settle down with someone in their early 20’s. I just think that we all need to be a little smarter and maybe lock it down a little tighter.
Comment by Dawnshyne on 8 February 2009:
This is a good question and I agree with what a lot of people are saying however nothing gets under my skin more than to have some woman tell me how strong and independent she is. I mean I honestly have never had a man (who is not gay and that is for another discussion) tell me how independent he is. Why is that a badge of honor? On the flip side; why is that synonymous with a bitter woman?
Although I personally hate the declaration why does it have to take on the most negative connotation possible? When I first read this article I was intent on railing against the women I know who make such a declaration and how superfluous it really is (not mention how stupid it sounds). But as I read on and I see that the board has just assumed that the women who feel a need to shout INDEPENDENCE from the rooftops are embittered, man-hating women, I am completely shocked and bewildered. Who died and made any of us King or Queen…who are we to give people titles?
I think that sometimes these women aren’t covering for what they have versus what they don’t have (cause a lot of them don’t have any way around), but they are doing what they feel they need to do to get through it all. Who are we to take that away? While I in no way see me raising a toast to being independent, because I am most certainly not, I refuse to take away whatever coping mechanism these people come up with…no matter how badly it sets my teeth on edge.
Comment by canadiangc on 9 February 2009:
??? People actually get paid to write that crap??
I’m in the wrong profession….
It’s not that female independance is a misplaced notion, it’s more like that men maturing and taking responsibilty is is the misplaced notion.
Too often the female tends to take the responisibility of the relationship, not because she wants to but because the man is incapable of doing it.
or maybe I’m just referring to ow long it took me to grow up and be responsible
Comment by laneljade on 9 February 2009:
You know I once read a personal ad that featured a woman that felt the need to show that she was very independent. The ad even featured pictures of her house, vehicle and family. She was a single mother. At first I thought that this woman was off of her rocker but then I got what she was doing. She was making herself out to be as easy-going and non-dependent as possible. It was if she was saying, “Please date me, I won’t ask you for anything, I can take care of myself!” I have seen women do this before, it’s called independence gone wrong. Let’s be real most men are not what they used to be. Men often times want something for free (e.g. your time and sex) and don’t want to contribute (e.g. helping with the bills, rent and other needful things). I am not talking about all men just the scrubs. So before anyone gets mad, ask yourself are you a man or a scrub? I mean damn even some animals have better sense, at least a male bird will build a damn nest and try to give the female bird a worm.
Anyhoo, I have had many of my male friends get involved with “independent” women and then after a while some of these women began to flip the script. My male friends then become confused, bewildered, lost in the wilderness of modern dating and don’t know what happened. That is when I interject with the common knowledge that has been passed down through the millennium; “There is not a woman alive that wants a man to lay upon her night after night without getting something out of it.” “She may require money, time, love or attention, but by God she wants something.”
Comment by spinsterette on 9 February 2009:
I guess when you young you see life through rose coloured glasses. I am single, I make my own money and pay my own bills, I spoil myself as well - does that make me independant - yes it does, does it make me bitter, certainly not. Life just happened to me that I stayed single. I guess even upto today I cannot picture myself in a wedding dress and a man waiting for me at the alter - I never had visions or dreams so I guess it was a natural that a reality did not follow, Have I cried about being lonely, yes I have. Have I asked the Lord God why me, yes I have. But when I look back at my life I am happy that I am happily single. When I look at my friends marriages I have no envy but Thankful to God that I chose to be single because for sure I can guarantee you I would have been an unhappy
Married and dependant woman - so dont slay me because God chose this path for me because bitter I am not - accepting I am - I accept the fact that I am single. I accept the fact that I am older and wiser and now know what to look for in a partner but I also accept the fact that if the right man does not come along that it is part of Gods plan for me. So why am I being slayed for being single and independant but had lonely moments. Does an unhappy battered married woman to be admired because she has a man and me stoned and shunned because I am single and independant
Comment by spinsterette on 9 February 2009:
I guess when you young you see life through rose coloured glasses. I am single, I make my own money and pay my own bills, I spoil myself as well - does that make me independant - yes it does, does it make me bitter, certainly not. Life just happened to me that I stayed single. I guess even upto today I cannot picture myself in a wedding dress and a man waiting for me at the alter - I never had visions or dreams so I guess it was a natural that a reality did not follow, Have I cried about being lonely, yes I have. Have I asked the Lord God why me, yes I have. But when I look back at my life I am happy that I am happily single. When I look at my friends marriages I have no envy but Thankful to God that I chose to be single because for sure I can guarantee you I would have been an unhappy
Married and dependant woman - so dont slay me because God chose this path for me because bitter I am not - accepting I am - I accept the fact that I am single. I accept the fact that I am older and wiser and now know what to look for in a partner but I also accept the fact that if the right man does not come along that it is part of Gods plan for me. So why am I being slayed for being single and independant but had lonely moments. Does an unhappy battered married woman to be admired because she has a man and me stoned and shunned because I am single and independant and happy but without a man
Comment by rarestgold on 9 February 2009:
OK so I’m independent and single. Lonely sometimes but surrounded by family and friends who love me. What is missing is the companionship. God did not make man and woman to be seperate and apart. We fit together like a lock and key. Why not have what was meant to be and by-the-way, if he’s the right guy you can still keep your independence.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 10 February 2009:
Spinsterette
No, you are should not be stone or shunned because you are single, independent, and happy without a man.
Now let’s put a spin on this if we can.
If you have a BLACK MAN that’s single, self supporting and happy without a wife, why is he shunned by women.
” He’s selfish, he aint done playing yet, he’s stuck up, he’s a lil boy in a grown mans body “!
These are the statements that are used to describe BLK MEN that exercise the option that many BLK WOMEN exercise.
If a man decides to concentrate on advancing his career or education, take time to travel the world, or start a business, that’s a positive thing, would’nt you think.
The moment that women find out he’s not married, never been married and GOD help him if he never wants to marry, he’s deemed suspect
WHY ?
Women that do the same thing are deemed smart and intelligent, they’re call them go-getters, or career women but men are called childish or selfish!
Let’s put aside the men that would be deemed unfit to marry and let’s deal with the top picks or the ones that meet the requirements that most BLK WOMEN have of them.
WHY ARE THESE BLK MEN NOT MARRYING BLK WOMEN ?
Just like BLK WOMEN many are exercising OPTIONS.
They’re enjoying the fruits or their labor and treating themselves good.
They’re travelling the world seeing new things and meeting new people.
” Why spend the best years of my life dealing with the drama of being married and raising kids? ”
” There’s so much this world has to offer me, I’m educated, professional, good looking but most of all, I’m independent, so why bother? ”
” Damn that, I gotta DO ME ! ”
Could this be the prevailing attitude amongst many eligable BLK MEN ?
This is the same attitude of many BLK WOMEN so where do we go from here? If this is a mind set that’s part of the American Culture and not just a issue amongst blk people, then where will you go?
This ” It’s all about me ” attitude is cross cultural and it’s wide spread!
rarestgold you are right men and women are meant to be together but I wont allow my INDEPENDENCE to rob me of what was meant for me !
James
Comment by Dawnshyne on 10 February 2009:
Um, wow, is that what you got out of what she said NOPLAYER? I mean where did the attitude come from? Where did the anger come from, and please excuse me if you did not mean to convey anger but that is what came through loud and clear.
I have to differ with you on a couple of points, particularly the one where there is anything but love given to men (blk or otherwise) who make something of themselves. I think that is where some of this “independent woman” thing came from.
Men never have to declare themselves “Independent” that is assumptive quality of being a man. People expect you to advance in your career…see the world and take care of yourself. You are rejoiced and placed upon pedestals.
On the contrary, women who are in the habit of taking care of themselves (I can’t use that phrase if I am going to refer to myself; like I said earlier it is stupid) are questioned by family, friends, even the casual acquaintance about why she has made this choice. Then if she deigns to explain herself then she has to face questions about her sexuality, her demeanor towards men, and her desire to have a family….
Look I am not sure how this became a discussion about “options” but when you think about it, it’s they are all labels and as much as we buck against others labeling us; we should never label ourselves.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 11 February 2009:
Dawnshyne, I was’nt attacking her point and I didn’t make my point out of a spirit of anger. I just asked a questions as to why men that exercise their OPTIONS are viewed as suspect.
We all agree that it’s vital to be able to support yourself regardless of what your relationship status is.
I was only pointing out the attitudes that exist among many eligable blk men.
So with many of our men feeling the same way as our women, then where does that leave both of them, as far as their outlook on relationships?
James
Comment by Dawnshyne on 11 February 2009:
Honey, if I knew that then I wouldn’t be on this website now would I? LOL
If that is the way men feel then more power to them. If it is working for them then I am never going to be one to question it.
Comment by homesteader on 12 February 2009:
Before criticizing one’s wife’s fault , Remember if it were not for them Flaws / She might have found a Better man , LOL Love Les
Comment by lizzy2005 on 12 February 2009:
I like to think I am an ‘independent’ woman.I have my own house, car and a good career. These are material things.However, I feel that as human beings, to be alone and unhappy can be soul destroying.
In a relationship both parties should have a degree of independence, which involves trust, to hang with their friends etc. On the whole I have found that most guys seem to embrace this idea better than their female partners. I have lost count of the number of friends who once in a ’serious’ relationship with a guy loose all contact with their friends.
Therefore I feel independence can be enjoyed on an equal basis if both people in the relationship are committed to it.
Comment by homesteader on 12 February 2009:
Yes , I - Won - here when We met . Our Independance has not been changed , we just touched-up the rough edges in our lives . My Wife opinion of Me is all that Matters to Us . Enjoy what you have , We do .
Comment by rebita on 12 February 2009:
Well humans are social by nature. The movie with Tom Hanks alone on an island talkin to a ball with a painted on face would be a reality if we didnt have each other.
As far as women needing a man or vice versa, it depends on the person. I can say this, what I need in a man is directly porpotional to what I will put up with. So, to answer your question do I need a man? No! Will I need MY man, the RIGHT man? YES! He will have created the need by being the person for me. All others need not apply!
Comment by salsera77 on 12 February 2009:
Miss Independent is now a requirement the way Ne-yo the singer tells it.
Are these popular song lyrics below a compliment or is Ne-yo being a male Gold Digger/Gigolo?
I wasn’t surprised when I found out that I wasn’t the only one wondering about that.
Is this a Pied Piper trend setting song for men or has it already set in in real life?
I think yes. I know of incidents. It’s not just a money making hit. He’s picked up on something.
Here are the Lyrics to “Miss Independent”.
Ooh
It’s something about
Just something about the way she move
I can’t figure it out
There’s something about her
Say ooh
There’s something about kinda women
That want you but don’t need you
Hey I can’t figure it out
There’s something about her
Cause she walk like a boss, talk like a boss
Manicured nails, to set the pedicure off
She’s fly effortlessly, and she move like a boss
Do what a boss do. She got me thinking about getting involved.
That’s the kinda girl I need
She got her own thing,
That’s why I love her
Miss independent, won’t you come
And spend a little time?
She got her own thing
That’s why I love her
Miss independent
Ooh the way you shine
Miss independent yeah
Hey, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeahhh, mmm
Ooh
There’s something
About kinda woman that can do for herself
I look at her and it makes me proud
There’s something about her
There’s something Ooh so sexy
About the kinda women
That don’t even need my help
She says she got it, She got it
No doubt, there’s something about her
Cause she work like the boss
Play like the boss
Car and a crib, she ‘bout
To pay em both off
And her bills are paid on time
She made for a boss
Only a boss, anything less
She’s telling ‘em to get lost
That’s the girl, that’s on my mind
She got her own thing, that’s why I love her
Miss independent, won’t you come and spend a little time
She got her own thing. That’s why I love her
Miss independent, Ooh
The way you shine. Miss independent
Yeah, yeahhh
Mmmm, Her favorite thing is to say
Don’t worry I got it.
Mmmmm, And everything she got. Best believe, she bought it
She gon’ steal my heart ain’t no doubt about it
Girl You’re everything I need
Said your everything I need
She got her own thing, That’s why I love her
Miss independent, Won’t you come
And spend a little time, She got her own thing
That’s why I love her, Miss independent
Ooh the way you shine, Miss independent
That’s why I love her.
I’ll bet you DO love her! Lol.
There’s another song out something like it as well.
I don’t know the name of it yet or who sings it.
Do men now feel that they can relinquish their traditional masculine roles in society?
I’m just tossing ideas around that I’m feeling from conversations I’ve had about this
and am not looking for a beat down. It subject very much fits the topic.
Comment by only_otter on 13 February 2009:
I am an independant woman in a unique way.
I can hunt, fish, work and provde for my household without the assistance of a man and do it very well thank you.
BUT
I can not have a stimulating conversation with myself, well I could but they would put me in a padded room.
I also can’t wrap myself around myself, wisper sweet nothings in my ear and tell me truly that everything is going to be alright.
And ladies, the pillow doesn’t work, I know, I tried it for years.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 13 February 2009:
salsare77 as a man I will not relinquish my traditional masculine role, why?
Part of what makes me feel like a man is being able to be there for the woman I love. The big deal for men is knowing that WE ARE WANTED!!!
We know you don’t need us to feed clothe and house you but we want to know that WE MATTER to you.
You got your own home, good, allow me to paint it when it’s needed.
Got a nice car, ok, I’ll keep it filled with gas, washed and waxed.
You make your own money, perfect, allow me to spend mine for no other reason than to put a smile on your face.
We’re not afraid of your ability to provide for yourself but we are afraid of feeling that we don’t have a place in your life and we’re not wanted.
OOOPS, I let the cat out of the bag !
I hope the guys don’t give me a BEATDOWN for putting that out there! LOL
James
Comment by homesteader on 13 February 2009:
A mans place is in the Home , just after he goes and gets the children from school . Throw some three pointers at the basketball hoop with them - Play Horse , Give them a book to read while He should cook dinner , have all the dusting done , clothes folded and put away hung neatly in the closet . Hug and Kiss his Ladie when she gets off work / Tell her she has all his Love . And ask her how her Day went . This being my third marriage / I got Experience in Life .
Comment by VA_SongBird on 13 February 2009:
Thank you James (NO PLAYER). If I weren’t in a committed relationship I would ask you to marry me.(SMILE) You really keep it real.
I think there’s a misconception about the term independence. Somehow, depending on it’s use, independence can be interpreted in a very negative and tainted way.
The positive aspect of independence, simply implies I have a reached a level of maturity and stability where I can be responsible for my life as well as someone else life potentially.
The negative aspect of independence, always suggest a person is bitter and does not need anyone or is afraid someone is attempting to take something from them.
I embrace the traditional definition when comes to relationships. The word relationship automatically infers an exchange or sharing of something of mutual interest and value. For example, Business partnerships are entered in daily on the basis, I have something of value and you have something of value. If we combine our talents and interests, we can have something greater and more powerful than we could as individuals.
It’s my personal opinion, sometimes people get tripped up with this word, because they have issues giving a 100% of themselves in a certain area, because of past hurts.
I think if we are to have successful relationships we have to accept we have been wired to depend on each other in some way or the other. Opening yourself up in this way, requires exposing yourelf to a degree of vulnerability.
In my opinion, there’s really no such thing as a truly independent person.
We all breathe the same air. We all essentially need the sames things to survive in this world and we all are in search of love and significance.
Comment by salsera77 on 13 February 2009:
Thanks No Player, for your heartfelt and honest
answer as always. There are some men that don’t think as you do though.
One incident I was thinking of was when a friend of mine went out to dinner with a guy for a first date. After the dinner was over, the check came and he said,
“You’re going to get this right?”
She stopped dating for a while.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 13 February 2009:
VA_SongBird no one would have to poke me in the back with a shotgun to make me say I DO ! (Smile)
You are so true, we have to accept that we have been wired to depend on eachother in some way or another.
If we know how we came to be, there’d be no confusion about independence. The fact that an egg and sperm are useless and insignificant until they come together, proves that we need eachother
It’s only when they unite that they can reproduce themselves. Humans are viewed as halves until they unite with their counterpart.
That alone makes it clear that we’re not INDEPENDENT and we were not created to be alone.
You’re right, it’s hard being vulnerable because you have no control over how a person will feel about you, so many of us wont exspose ourselves to the possibility of getting hurt.
Vulnerability and exposure can lead to tolerence, grandma didn’t lie when she said, ” what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger”! That’s why people must decide to become BETTER and not BITTER.
You don’t let nobody TURN YOU a certain way because they TREAT YOU a certain way!
That’s not INDEPENDENCE, that’s ENSLAVEMENT!
Only when we develope tolerence, will we be able to endure the ups and downs in our relationships.
VA_SongBird, you knocked the ball out of the park with this one!
Best wishes to you and yours,
James
Comment by NOPLAYER on 13 February 2009:
salsarea77 sad to say it, some of these guys are looking for women to take care of them. It’s as if they got the roles reversed.
These guys don’t wont to work, they want to out dress the women, and God help them, if they miss a nail appointment.
Now you see why I wont give up my traditonal masculine role?
Comment by VA_SongBird on 13 February 2009:
Salsarea77, kudos to your friend and to the fact she had the courage to walk away from that situation because she knew her VALUE.
I think it is unrealistic to attract the best for oneself without being willing to “give” the best of yourself. Apparently, this guy didn’t think very much of himself to make the investment.
I have always found comfort in these type of situations, because I know when I have sown something good and/or positive into someone’s life, whether or not the situation materialized the way I desired, I know eventually I will receive something good back down the road.
The only thing more tragic in life is a heart starving for love, but at the same time, is unwilling to give love unconditionally.
Comment by NOPLAYER on 14 February 2009:
It’s true, you can have no more than what you’re willing to give.
People say, “I give my time, I spend my money, I do this and I do that”, but are you giving YOU ?
Often times we use those things as a substitute so we wont have to give OURSELVES.
People bond with people, not things, not words or deeds performed.
I remember a friend and his wife were joking around and she told him that she’d take the house, the car and the kids and he told her, “women you can take ANYTHING I GOT, you just can’t have ME” !
James
Comment by salsera77 on 14 February 2009:
NoPlayer, I hope guys with your sensibilities on
these matters are in the majority and that it stays that way.
VA_SongBird, Your comments are right on point.
Also Yes, my friend was shocked at the guy’s behavior and knew that that was the first and last date with him. She had had a string of first bad dates with others and that date was the straw that broke the camel’s back so to speak. I can’t blame her for taking a long breather and just taking trips with the girls.
Comment by homesteader on 14 February 2009:
And it the daytime before that , I would be driving logtruck from the forests to the plywood mill .
Comment by erinfl14 on 15 February 2009:
I think when a woman refers to herself as independent I think she means economically independent. I am economically independent but by no means would I say I don’t want a man. When I hear women saying that I’m like whatever you know you wouldn’t mind having a nice man in your life. I also don’t agree that I man hates when I woman refers to herself as independent. If you look at most of the men’s profile on this site many state that they want an independent woman!
Comment by VA_SongBird on 15 February 2009:
Erinfl14, I do understand your point. Anytime we women are economically independent that is a good thing. Trust me, I know. I was raised by a single mother of 3 children. Life is so full of unexpected surprises and you do want your ship to sail regardless of whom is or is not in your life.
However, I’m old fashion when it comes to men being providers. I understand in today’s economy most families need two incomes to survive. But more importantly, I don’t want to connect with any one who isn’t willing to take on that responsibility to some degree.
It’s my opinion, alot of times I consider men who over emphasize their desire for an independent woman as being they don’t want the full responsibility of having a wife.
Some men want the benefits, but they don’t want to pay the price for being responsible for inviting someone in their life. I’m more of a “for better, for worse, in sickness or in health” kind of girl.
Also, when a man really makes an investment in a relationship, he is more willing to protect it and do whatever is necessary to maintain it. If it comes to easy… he will not cherish it..
Comment by lazylove on 16 February 2009:
As much as independence feels good to know that you enjoy your own company and are self sufficient I particularyly do not wish to spend the rest of my life alone….that is not to say that I will chose whoever whenever…everyone wants love and to be loved that is what we are all doing on this site. So independent girls and guys at some point we want to be able to DEPEND on our significant other for something even if it is just a nice hug. Cheers!!
Comment by VA_SongBird on 16 February 2009:
I second that Sista Lazy Love, well said.
Comment by homesteader on 17 February 2009:
When I first became married / I was number 1 in her life . When we had children / I moved to the Position of being a Father and accepting that Our children came First in our daily lives . This did not change the Love We had for each other it just Enhanced it . When I look back at the thousands of dirty diapers , the peppermint candy I would put in their water bottles to calm their sick tummies , the comfort that I would give them when they felt Bad , the teaching as I would read stories and they in turn would read beside me . The times when their bicycles would fall over and I would pick them back up and clean the dirt off them and apply bandaids to the hurt . Life is taking Independance and sharing Good and Bad times together as a Partnership . We all start by being independent / We grow together as a Family because we want to Learn to Share the Good life together . I look at my Wife as the Reward God has given me for the Good things I have Done .
Comment by blackstorm69 on 15 May 2009:
I think that its a real travesty when I hear women say they dont need men, they can do well on their own. For me that is not so although I can take care of myself it is nice also to have someone around who you love and respect and will offer you some degree of protection.We are all dependant on someone to an extent
Comment by aliekatt on 3 October 2009:
@salsera77 & Meron ummm yeah, you are right on the money.
@ YngCaramelQT this is meant in no way disrespectful, but the adage, “with age comes wisdom” seems to fit just nicely here. If you have a happy lifestyle being alone, then that is what fits and works best for you.
It certainly does not mean that you are bitter, wanting or lacking in any way. Antiquated notions like Mr.needaqueen & NOPLAYER are what continue to recycle the antediluvian notions that because a woman likes, enjoys, and sometimes craves space she must be bitter, is baseless and boorish.
I myself personally would like to meet and date a nice considerate man now, but for years after my divorce I liked being alone. Just me and my lil ones. I was more concerned with my career, and the things that mattered most in my life, and that had nothing whatsoever to do with a man. I think it’s a little superfluous and malicious to insinuate that women who are independent are basically bitter, pungent, and have some sincere abhorrence for the male; that they are basically just fooling themselves because in all respects they are man haters; and only their financial status makes the man subordinate to them, and thus it is only because of this financial independence that they have any type of self sovereignty.
This within itself has no sphere in actual intellectual thought, and both Mr.needaqueen & Mr. NOPLAYER’s comments should be ignored wholly; because they don’t apply to the preponderance of women.
Because of ideals, not ideas like this women who are INDEPENDENT get a bum rap; because they are portrayed as loathing in opposition to men, with a earnest antipathy. And on the whole, tart and acidic just because she likes independence, and doesn’t see herself needing a man to associate or equate value to herself; seems very sad,outmoded and obsolete.
Vamos hombre, este es el siglo 21!
(translation; Come on man, this is the 21st century!)
Hope I didn’t , Paso de dedos de los pies de nadie (Step on anyone’s toes), Sorry, a little peeved, and I am a St. English professor.