Gold-diggers or downright realistic?

Posted by Ria, 23 Sep 09

“I don’t know about chat-up lines but a man once bought me a car. He got a whole lot of thanks for that.”

“I would rather cry in a Crystler than laugh on a bicycle.”

These are the words of two women who have no shame and make no apology for having sexual relations or marrying purely for money. Clearly in their world, love features nowhere in their plans.

We call them gold-diggers, opportunists… I mean why else would some young hottie who could have any young hunk wrapped around her finger choose to become the second wife of some man old enough to be her dad; right?

Your perfect partner could be online right now...

What are you looking for?

Many people shy away from speaking truthfully about their intentions for marriage; especially when the real motivation is money. But marrying for money isn’t something new. Look at animals; the females are attracted to males who can protect and provide for them. And when we come to humans, even marriages founded on love are based on the theory of rational choice where parties involved weigh the benefits of their union and make decisions based on what they stand to gain from the marriage.

Fact is; even the rich people in these equations get something in exchange of the luxurious life they offer… great sex, ego boost… Either way, it’s a win-win situation. So why are we so quick to call those marrying for love manipulative?

Due to glaring disparities in society in terms of wealth, how can we expect not to have a considerable number of relationships cemented on money? Let’s face it; we have become a society of impressions and we are ready to do anything to portray a certain image. Men too go for older women so long as it buys them a meal ticket or the kind of lifestyle they can only dream to have.

If you look at it objectively with a mind devoid of emotion and ethics, marrying for money makes a lot of sense. And if both parties benefit from the relationship – which in most cases they do – then to put it bluntly, both are taking advantage of each other – NO LOSERS!

So what is so wrong with ensuring that your marriage gives you financial security? Are those of us doing the finger-pointing, being hypocritical?

85 responses to "Gold-diggers or downright realistic?"

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  1.   Datalley says:
    Posted: 22 Dec 10

    I am a professional man that makes a good living. I have no problem with a professional black woman. Arrogance or bad attitude can come from a PBW, PWW or a BBW(Broke), WBW(BROKE). What I do not like is a woman who is out to see how much money she can get from a man or how much stuff he can buy for her. My opinion is that it is another form of prostitution. Prostitution: "is the act or practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment." It can be manipulated how you want but it is what it is. I am not cheap by a long shot. I will do more for a woman who I believe is caring, there for me, warm and is a true friend. This is the type of woman you can trust and depend on. Someone who is there for the money will typically be gone when the money is gone. If a guy or a woman chooses to stay with someone or be with someone who treats them a particular way.....it is no ones fault but your own. Therefore, don't complain when you already know how is and will be. I prefer a woman who comes to the table with something equal. We are not talking about sex because that is not hard to get. I am talking substance, goals, intelligence and true independence. We compliment each other. We don't suck the life out each other. If one chooses to be in a certain relationship where someone totally takes advantage of them than that is their life. It is just not for me. I have a little more respect for myself than that.

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  2.   Jenna says:
    Posted: 10 Jun 10

    @ Whurr I am not gonna deny, reading your posts cracks me up lol! You are so right! Life is to be enjoyed, live love and laugh! May the blessings be!

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  3.   maxhb says:
    Posted: 22 Mar 10

    I definitely would prefer a woman who is financically secure and generous. I wouldnt base my choice on her bank account but if I were attracted it would be nice. So when a woman makes money part of criteria I dont criticize. Give me a rich woman over a poor one any day.

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  4.   Member says:
    Posted: 20 Mar 10

    I am new to blogging, so I feel like I am in the just taking notes phase. But when I do find a blog topic I like, I do comment because I genuinely like what has been said or the information was helpful to me. I am officially linked to your blog now, so I will be checking in often! Thanks for all the great advice.

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  5.   canadiangc says:
    Posted: 03 Mar 10

    So from the article I get that the men took care of the females financially in return for sex. Nothing wrong with that, it seems they both are getting what they are looking for. From my own experience most females eventually prefer men who are financially stable. No sense having financial stress ruin a good relationship.

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  6.   RAYNEDELAY says:
    Posted: 09 Dec 09

    Both sexes use each other. That's why it's important to vet someone. Take your time and get to know them. I want someone who is financially stable yes but I have to love that person too.

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  7.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 25 Nov 09

    @ Deewhiz Thank you as well for the kind words. I would kill for the opportunity to stay home with my little ones. I swear I feel horrible when I have to tell my 5 year old, I can't go on her field trip or sit in her class because I have to work. Even when we go on vacations it's work. I even put them to work (of course that's quality time for us), I swear my son is going to be typing 75wpm, before he turns 10. But I assure them that I love them and I have to work to take care of us. I also want them to have a strong work ethic so they don't think anyone owes them anything. Being a PBW has it's pros and cons, financially I got this, but emotionally I'm dying inside.

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  8.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 25 Nov 09

    takinitall - I agree with you whole heartedly! I understand the fustration of women, I really do. I know many women who would love to be homemakers instead of dealing with these crazy folks on a job and all the B.S. that comes with it. I'm sure most men would love for their wives to be able to stay at home but in today's economy you need two incomes to have a comfortable standard of living. @ Deewhizz - as a man that's always worked a job and kept money, I've never been stingy. When I would meet a nice lady with a good heart and a loving soul, money was never an issue when it came time to go out. It's something about a confident woman with a loving spirit that attracts the kindness of men. I can pick up on a woman's vibes and if the vibes are positive, I have no problem being gracious and giving. I think you understand the principle of GIVING more of the thing that you WANT and it's seems to be working for you. Deewhizz go and teach what you know to as many people as you can! Peace!

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  9.   homesteader says:
    Posted: 24 Nov 09

    U.P.S. delivered my new Harley-Davidson catalog while sitting on the Deck talking to neighbors the other day . They got this Pretty FLHTCUTG Tri Glide Ultra Classic 2010 model / Mirage Orange Pearl for Maximum Visability and Vanessa says she will be Proud to ride behind me . One good Dream deserves another , Hehe / see y'all in-the-Wind

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  10.   deewhizz says:
    Posted: 23 Nov 09

    @takinitall; U strike me as a beautiful and intelligent woman(of color too but shh folx r getting sensitive about race lately LOL) Thanks for, oh I don't know just existing? :) Sometimes I feel as though its a dying breed and that's why some men behave as they do towards women, they simply haven't dealt with a reaaalll woman b4! I think that was why I was SO frustrated with my teen neighbor's outlook. I mean I really dropped the sugar coating w/ her. She's caucasian but it doesn't matter, I couldn't let her go on this way w/out speaking my mind it seems no one else in her life has taken the time :( It became clear right away that she simply does not have a model of a confident woman in her life who is attractive but does not rely on that. She had not been exposed (enough at least!)to a woman such as you or I and as a result her world view was sooo limited she sent me into panic mode as she was talking. (I only have toddlers but I've found the secret of connecting w/ teens. Be available, make small talk and let them broach real convo. Then drop the knowledge on 'em strike while the iron is hot! BUT u have stick 2 the facts and don't moralize or lecture. If u do the eyes glaze over and they go to a better place even though they appear to be looking right at u but I'm very observant haha) And these yrs are soo crucial 4 her(OMG she's sexually active now but that's another story girl!) Guys, How is "your" money ever going to be worth as much as "our" money or best of all "my" money? Speaking personally I was never a gold-digger, because I have a lot of my pride and self-esteem wrapped up in my earning ability amongst other more feminine pursuits LOL I'm just made that way. HOWEVER, there is a terrible irony to this. From afar, I'm sure someone could have observed me on a number of occasions and thought "gold-digger" to themselves because; People give me things. They always have. I try to give to others w/out being asked and I believe these continuous acts of unprompted kindness magnify and come back to me. I can't prove this but since I believe it, I open doors 4 folx, thank vets, donate to charity help elderly people etc because its the right thing 2 do and also I don't my good fortune to stop! My spouse noticed this upon entering what I call my "interior" life. You know, someone who you are so close with they r there when you get your car serviced, pick up dry cleaning, order a drink at a bar etc. He says I constantly get preferential treatment(that was not offered to him in the same situations when alone) and by extension so does he. Strangely this applies to both genders. He refers to this phenomenon as the "PGD" (pretty girl discount) Romantically I don't ask, but suitors even male friends have always spent a lot of money on me, being with me, etc. It was reciprocated but for some reason I think always initiated by them I don't know why I've nver taken the time to think about it.. I believe they do it because when they encounter me its clear that I live a certain lifestyle and in order to meet me at my level or even better impress me, dollars must be spent. So they do so without complaint. Its unspoken but I guess expected as part of the courtship and standing out as a suitor when you know a woman has her choice of partners. What's not fair about life is, while I was usually treated this way it was never reallly necessary because I had my own. When u don't need it, people want to offer it! :) Once there is a relationship, I have no problems spending on my honey but I must say I usually get the type who seem to need little more than me as a partner because they have already met their material needs. So when I have tried to reciprocate financially in a tit-for-tat way they never really seemed impressed by it so I gave up. I think it would have 2 be something SERIOUS like a Porsche. And until I get my Cayenne Turbo I won't be handing those out:) So I guess my point is $$$ isn't everything? I'm not even sure, just reflecting LOL...

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  11.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 22 Nov 09

    @ zzz First off I would like to welcome you. Now your post has some validity, but I would have to disagree with most of it. I personally do not know one PW who wouldn't trade her career for a stable family life. The problem is there are very few men who a woman is willing to trust her life with. Women are very emotional, unfortunately we get so into our work to compensate for not having a partner to direct our attention to. Every woman wants to be complimented on her beauty and have her ego stroked regardless of her level. However, PW are more into substance rather than looks. At what point do you set your ego on the shelf, and dig deeper. You can chill with your boys, I hate to break it to you, but women date looking for compatibility. Even women who try to appeal to men who want to chill and say they don't want something serious, eventually catches feelings. Ones financial status does not make them superior, no one should worship any one except God. @ Deewhiz Great post. You are the perfect example of a PBW. Many of us are willing to put our careers on hold to have our family life. Your mentorship to that young lady apparently opened her eyes before it was too late. Thank God she had you, before she ended in destruction. @ Homesteader :)

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  12.   WHURR says:
    Posted: 20 Nov 09

    If I only I had the $$$, so I could have my own gold-digger. SIGHHHHH Let me go back to cutting out the Buy1Get1Free Filet-O-Fish coupon!

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  13.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 20 Nov 09

    @zzz - Great incite! Some of the things that you mention about leaving the Professional at work and just being a person on a date does cause alot of problems in relationships between PM and PW. I think it comes down to balance and today alot of people lack that, I tell people all the time, " you should work to live and not live to work!" I've dated a few PW and it didn't work out too well because they always acted as if they had something to prove. I don't know if this behavior came from working in a highly competetive invironment were they always had to prove their compentency to someone, it's like they didn't know how to turn "The Professional" and turn on "The Woman" once we were together. It didn't feel like romatic one on one, it felt like a game of basketball, hell men play ball to releive stress and exercise that competetive edge and that kind of activity just has no place in a romatic relationship. zzz I feel ya!

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  14.   zzz says:
    Posted: 18 Nov 09

    PBW's it as nothing to do with inferiority or money JEEEZUZ! The law of the universe plays true in dating/relationships opposites attract. Reason - As a PBM, or I'd like to say PM (cuz race really doesn't matter it's just a crutch to validate ones point of view in life.) When I've worked all week and I go out on a date with a lady, which I'm a southern gent - so I pay, that's how I was raised. I want to be with someone who will stroke my ego a little bit, seduces me with her eyes, and tells me I'm sexy or likes some quality about me, and I compliment her and make her laugh, and why shouldn't I want that? I worked hard, pay my dues; so why wouldn't I want to be with somone that captures my attention - stirs my passions. I feel in that respect she getting to know me, not my title, or my salary, basically she's taking the stress away. Most men especially PM fall for women like that. I hate to say this, but most PW can't do this, when I go out on a date I leave the "P" at work and become a guy. PW never take "P" off and just be a lady or a fun loving gal. Why? cuz PW and PM are the same. At the end of the week a PW wants to go out on date with somone that stokes their ego, just like a PM. And why not? She's worked as hard as I have; so she too should get what she wants. The friction when a PM and PW go on a date is this - He wants to chill, cut loose, and enjoy the present, she looking for the right mate; so she's constantly trying to see what his values are, never or rarely compliments the guy about him, and is always asking him questions about career/work - goals, and to the PM It feels like their at a job interview, not a date. And like I said earlier, PW like their egos stroked too. They don't want to be complimented so much about their beauty, but they like to be complimented as "professional" women - their wit, knowledge. If you want to make'em happy just let take charge. For PM, this equals no "fun". If I were to marry a PW, I would see it as a job, not an adventure in growing together. That's both parties date and marry people of less (This could be income, intellect, social status). Because men and women who are "professional", feel like we have a degree of power and control. We just wield it in different ways.

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  15.   homesteader says:
    Posted: 14 Nov 09

    takinitall - means the Good as well as the bad in my thoughts .

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  16.   deewhizz says:
    Posted: 13 Nov 09

    **WARNING LONG POST MAY REQUIRE COFFEE 2 FINISH** I considered marrying 4 money in my 20's to a millionaire(which was a lot bk then in the olden days haha)who was 10yrs older and whose biological clock was going off like crazy. I knew I wasn't in love w/ him, but he was wild about me and hadn't even considered maybe a pre-nup to protect his assets. I was kind of dealing w/ it at first because his emotions almost made up 4 the lack of mine and it was soooo tempting. I lived in NY and he was flying me bk and forth to his place in SF CA at a moments notice. As cynical NY'ers, ridiculing Californians was a hobby of ours especially since they would always fly out and provide fresh material:) We had more respect for the Northern Cali folx but he was originally from Venice Beach so boy was he fair game. So my friends and I had already had a gooood laugh about there was no way he would be stupid enough to fall headlong into a long distance relationship and b tlking marriage when the courier showed up with the itinerary and tix. Things got quiet then:) My more cynical friends scoffed at my whining about not being "in love". "So what? Just deal w/ it, you don't have 2 work anymore and when it goes bad u get half." In the end I couldn't do it. I had moved to CA and was actually getting physically ill from my ambivalence and broke it off. He did not take it well at all because we were engaged, which in retrospect I regret agreeing to. He wouldn't speak to me and had someone else drive me to the airport. But I'm soooo glad I didn't do it. I never want to depend on a man 4 money even if its my spouse. My spouse and I who are both from working class families were in an earnings competition(the winner gets to further their career and the loser does EVERYTHING else LOL) and we were neck and neck working crazy OT and both going 2 school when he sucker punched me w/ an MBA which frankly I didn't think much of until he doubled his salary. But he is fully aware of the six figures I agreed to give up and career on hold until our children are in school and mentions it. I had a talk w/ a teen neighbor about thinking she was going to get by on her looks. She does. She told me as much and then explained she wanted to live "an exciting life like mine." Which is a great plan except looks are fleeting and if you have nothing behind that facade you are easily replaced. I then went on to explain how the manufacturing base disappeared a while bk so if she doesn't have a sugar daddy she'll be, I don't know working the midnight drive-thru at Wendy's. I'm not even sure, she might even need a HS diploma to even do that. I was quite the geek as a kid I got shipped 2 a prep school on scholarship(the good academic kind where if your grades slip so do you right out the door) and graduated at 16 so I have zero patience for that attitude. I had soooo much pressure on me at her age (classical piano competitions 2,why not I wasn't doing anything I can knock out a hour a day of practice and lessons from a taskmaster on Saturdays suuuure!) and this girl thinks it's ok to drop out of HS!! Her cute face was very pale when she left but her dad is a single parent, I had 2 give her some straight girl talk. "Now get yourself an education and a life! bye sweetie!" :) On the plus side her last report card was all A's and a B instead of her usual pathetic D's. I knew she was just being lazy:)

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  17.   whurr says:
    Posted: 12 Nov 09

    @OldSchool56 You my official cyberstalker! I have noticed that you post comments to me now that are not connected to you whatsoever! This blog isn't reality baby... get over it when someone says something negative about you! I find it amazing that you make a comment on any blog where I commented. The comments have nothing do with you, except for the one where I made statements about you. You are now my official 'cyber-stalker'. I think its cute! Keep it up!

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  18.   oldschool56 says:
    Posted: 12 Nov 09

    @takinitall LOL unless you have actually seen Whurr's accomplishments or some kind of degree...you still have no idea how educated and accomplished he really is. Its an intelligent one that can con others into believing something that isnt fact. Thats one of the things about being online, you never know..THE TRUTH! Sadly those of us (you included)who are real, even online become casualties of the idiots who arent. See Im an educational consultant myself...(See how easy that is?). Anyway it is fun to blog about things and you do hope you find at least one or two people who actually type with some intelligence.

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  19.   lizzy2005 says:
    Posted: 09 Nov 09

    @takinitall Thanks for your kind words:) I split with my ex a number of years ago. When our daughter was a baby. I did learn my lesson. He didn't break me lol. He ended up paying up a good deal of the money back after I had sought legal advice. As for dating. Its cool. Yes I would like to meet someone nice, but not at the risk of my children.

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  20.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 09 Nov 09

    @ oldschool56 - it's true that alot of men (not all)have issues with professional women. To be on top of our game and confident is a positive thing, while arrogance and aggressiveness is not. I cant say what other men will or wont say about another professional man but I'll call a spade, a spade. If your an arrogant and cocky asshole, I'll call you just that! You said, "look its 2009, get over it!" What's there to get over? I've never had an issue with women excelling in the work place or bringing home more money for that matter! If my wife bringing in more bread allows me to go and buy more bacon, not a problem I'll be more than glad to fry it up! As far as my humility and my picture not being posted. I had my picture and profile removed after being contacted by one too many either crazy women or scammers. It didn't seem to matter that my profile stated I was married and that I wasn't looking for nothing, so I requested that it be removed. And your point is????????????? Those who've been here for a while know I'm married and I'm not looking for anybody to hook up with. I just enjoy blogging about IR dating/marriage topics because I can relate to most of the topics. My screen name comes from my lack of "GAME", my inability to smooth talk women or to be a "PLAYER", the guys gave my that name years ago. LOL Being that I'm 38, married w/children, got bills to pay and things to make happen, I aint got the time nor the desire to "PLAY". My screen name desrcibes me correctly at this age and stage in my life! oldschool56, I'm with cha, no arguement here!

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  21.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 09 Nov 09

    @ Noplayer I forgot to answer your question. Yes I would communicate with a guy whose screen name is out to get yours to find out what it means. In fact take Whurr for example, looking at his screen name and pics you would not know how educated and accomplished he is unless you correspond with him. I remember when I was new to this site and he and I chatted. Turns out we are both educational consultants. So my point is, besides being a cute smart ass, he's actually very smart. Plus his swagger is vicious! Even you, we both enjoy blogging on various topics and you are like the long distance big brother I never had.

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  22.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 09 Nov 09

    @oldschool56 Thanks! I will continue to strive for excellence like yourself. @ Noplayer I'm not hardly mad at you. I allways respect your opinion even if we don't agree. My screen name may send the message of gold digger to some and I'm ok with that. Those who view it as gold diggerish may not feel that way if I was unattractive or if they actually corresponded with me. To be honest I am rather cocky and aware of it. I feel that I want a man who is strong enough to tame me and secure enough to step to me. My pride is often mis interpreted as arrogance, but I can't change how other people view me. I am tankful for everything I have in life and refuse to take less from a potential mate. My screen name simply means I am taking all (100%)from my partner and nothing less. I'm actually glad you said gold digger, cause most of the guys here have thought sexual!

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  23.   oldschool56 says:
    Posted: 07 Nov 09

    @Noplayer So I guess we are supposed to think you arent a player just because of your screen name? LOLOL. Maybe you read "gold digger" in Takingitall's screen name but I think you are wrong. Online a screen name does not represent who you are. The bottom line is men have issues with women who are capable of being aggressive in the workplace. A PBW is not arrogant. Men would not say that about a another man who is professional. But a woman is supposed to be demure and gentle and shy, all that things that kept us in the background for centuries. Look its 2009, get over it. I agree with you that some humility is needed to appreciate one another. God gave women gifts for man to apprciate as well as gifts to men for women to appreciate. Is the fact that you are on a dating site with no pic and probably no information about yourself called being humble? There is nothing wrong with you Takin..stay just like you are. There are men out there who have not got issues with professional women. Unfortunately they are few and far between but they are out there. Do not settle for less than what you want in a man and if he cant handle it because of his self esteem and confidence issues oh well!!

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  24.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 07 Nov 09

    @ takinitall Now don't get mad at me! You asked what could you modify to seem less threating to a man, for starters, how about your login name. The name "takingitall" was I'm a gold-digger written all over it! Would you contact a guy whose name was "out2getyours"? From many conversation with men about this topic, they say that too many PBW come off as arrogant and they give off the, "who needs a man" vibe. Could they be mistaking self-confidence for arrogance, possibly? Issues of confidence and self-esteem are issues that men will have to work out for themselves and there's nothing you can do for them. You would be surprised how direct eye contact and a sexy smile will break the ice but it all falls back on him and his level of self-confidence. I trully believe when you're a humble man and you can appreciate God's gifts in a women, you're not intimidated by those gifts and you can appreciate them as she can appreciate yours.

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  25.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 07 Nov 09

    @ oldschool Thanks for your respinse. Your screen name says it all. We need to get back to basics and family centered like our grtandparents. Those old school values we have gotten away from has caused so much conflict. @ lizzy2005 Girl I want to hug you. I'm so sorry that you had to go through such crap with your ex. Just make sure the next guy you choose values are in line with yours. After all your baby girl is watching and the man you choose is going to be her model of a man. Stay positive and focused as you have and God will send him to you. I swear some guys are so damn selfish.

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  26.   lizzy2005 says:
    Posted: 04 Nov 09

    As mentioned by other members women can be higher wage earners than the guy. In the past when I used to go out on a date often the conversation would turn to occupation and salary. If the guy was earning less than me he would make some idiotic comment such as that I must feel really lucky to be in my position. Why lucky? I have worked hard to get where I am in my life. Anyway to the case in point. There are male gold diggers too. I was married to one. Alas it took me a long time to realise that my trust in my husband was misplaced. He was secrectly withdawing money from my bank account which I thought we were saving for the birth of our daughter. After splitting up I found myself to be thousands of pounds in debt due to loans etc he had taken out in my name.

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  27.   oldschool56 says:
    Posted: 04 Nov 09

    @Whurr..I guess there has to be one to ruin good blogs. Your responses are good for a laugh I cant see any woman taking you seriously on or offline. @takinitall...I like what you have to say. Its true about men thinking their worth is measured by their wallets and then they meet a woman who would enhance their potential (PBW) instead of dragging it down (the sexy,happy-hour, admin assit,intern lol)and want to just pass her by. In todays world where it takes two incomes to stay above water, PBW should be just what he needs.

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  28.   WHURR says:
    Posted: 01 Nov 09

    @Takintall Boogie Down most definitley as I said 'My Philosophy". Hence, my EPMD refernce as well. As I stated to all the smart-azzes, especially those of you that have been waiting for me to make a blunder, I get it ....ok....I get it...professional.....!

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  29.   pumpkin22 says:
    Posted: 31 Oct 09

    There, there, WHURR, They mean "professional black woman" and "professional black man".

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  30.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 31 Oct 09

    @ Whurr, you are such a big spender! I have never had a man spend less than $5.00 on a date with me. I wouldn't want you to think I'm a gold digger or anything like that. But the .99cent store is my favorite hang out spot. To answer your question the "P" in PBW and PBM stands for professional. Ok either you're a 80's hip hop head and BPD is boogie down productions or you're super special and BPD is borderline personality disorder. I'll take boogie down productions for $1. Let's see how I score on the internet acronym game. @ No Player OK! Help me understand then. As a PBW, what should one modify to seem less threatening to a man? I apparently can't get the crap right, but I damn sure can't play games. Ego is a mother, I tell you. As a woman and a mother, I am forced to rise to any challenge. I can't sit back and wait for someone else to feed, clothe and house us. The reality is I work hard because I have to. If I found a partner who did not want me to work and he could hold down the fort, I would gladly quit work and stay home.

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  31.   SnazzyBella says:
    Posted: 30 Oct 09

    okay for real mr. slow @whurr PBW= professional black woman PBM- professional black man

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  32.   homesteader says:
    Posted: 30 Oct 09

    Professional / as in " Truckdriver " the trade I Retired from - Whurr . I will say tho that short forms are B.S. FROM A K.O.T.R.R. [ King of the Road Retired ] to stop confusion .

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  33.   SnazzyBella says:
    Posted: 30 Oct 09

    PBW= Pretty Black Woman. DUH!

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  34.   WHURR says:
    Posted: 29 Oct 09

    PBW and PBM? I got the black male and black female part...what the hell is 'P'... protestant...philanthropic...philandering....psychopathic.....someone help me!! I know the following: PBJ..love em BMW... drive em BPD... My philosophy.... (50% just said HUH?) EPMD... read directly above comment JFK... if only he lived What the hell is PBW and PBM .. I know I am now officially humiliating myself, which I do already everytime I post, but I need to know!

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  35.   homesteader says:
    Posted: 29 Oct 09

    People tend to date because of Attracton / Timing and how serious the Mood is at that time . Together is a Clean shirt , polished shoes and a Friendly Smile . I smelled of Diesel fuel because of my job / yet Cleaned up well and dated many who I met along the way of my journeys . Because I asked Nicely " Would you care to Dine or Dance with me Pretty Ladie " With a Smile . From one Grease monkey to another Noplayer , we men all Clean up good . It may be how we present ourselves in Public as to whether or knot Ladies accept us for who we really are .

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  36.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 29 Oct 09

    @takinitall You would think that PBM would pursue more PBW than they do but many times thats not the case. This shows that despite the high income, the degrees, and the professional title, you still have PBM that overlook PBW. Some of these men have no problem going after the interns, the admin asst or the sexy waitress at the happy hour spot but they'll PBW. What are some of the reasons behind this? First we were dealing with men who avoided PBW due to their feelings of not measuring up because of their lack of professional development, now we have men that are educated, professional and high income earners for one reason or another that choose not to date PBW. I wonder are we dealing with men who will date women not on their level as a means of feeling superior and so they avoid women on or above their level? Once again we're back to their need to feel powerful by dating someone that will stroke their inflated ego. It's the need to be in control by dating someone that they feel they're better than. Professional women in general deal with this from all men, it's just not a PBM / PBW problem. This "stinking thinking" cuts across racial lines. Until men stop measuring themselves by their wallets and their degrees, they'll always struggle with these kinds of issues because they're dealing with a false sense of self and not the real self. Woman need to understand that sometimes a man's outter appearance of having it togehter could be a cover up of a few self-image problems, because in this world, "if you LOOK LIKE you got it together, you HAVE IT together"! Says who, may I ask????

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  37.   whurr says:
    Posted: 29 Oct 09

    @takinitall Im not funny! I evoke the emotion of fear. I love women with hidden profiles...major turn-on! I will fly to LA and take you to Long John Silvers so we can 'dine' on the new popcorn shrimp $3.99 special. We can share one...more romantic that way...has nothing to do with the fact I have $4.27...strictly romance....I got it like that baby...you know how us 'playas' roll!

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  38.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 28 Oct 09

    @ Whurr, you are so funny. Your posts allways evoke some kind of emotion in me; either laughter or insight. I really like how you can be educated, ghetto and funny all in one. @ No Player You know for the longest time I refused to date interracially for fear of giving up on my men. I find that as a PBW, I do not attract many PBM. I love the song "Golddigger" by Jamie Foxx and Ray Charles. I love the part where he says "stick by his side..................and when he get's up leave yo a** for a white girl." I'm ok with that now and since I have gone interracial I have met more people who value me as a woman. Women have to accept that we do not have to tolerate bullsh*t just to have someone. I just wish that more men would step up their game so they won't be intimidated.

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  39.   ninaforever says:
    Posted: 27 Oct 09

    I think most women who are "gold diggers" are women who have been hurt by men at some point in their lives and have become bitter and have also decided to use gold digging as a defense and a shield so that they can lie to themselves and at the same time feel as though they are protecting their hearts. I am not advocating this practice nor do i believe in it but what i don't understand is that when a lot of men usually approach a woman that they are interested in they will sell themselves and offer to do things for a woman and make promises to her and then turn around and claim that she is using them.As a woman I feel as though if a man cares about you and your well being he will show it and and vice versa. Women are emotional creatures so we are always looking for signs of affection or caring just as men are more logical and tend to want to be the provider and protector.

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  40.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 26 Oct 09

    @takinitall- I agree that being a BW plus profesional presents a it's fair share of challenges but challenges are for overcoming and not running away from. There's this crazy myth about professional BW being uptight, bitchy, snobby and only interested in other high earning professional men and as a result men avoid these women like the plague. This myth has a negative impact on PBW (proffesional black woman). During a discussion a friend bought up some valid points when he stated: 1. PBW at the end of the day are women and you should focus on her as a woman that wants love, affection and attention and not get caught up in her markings of success. 2. All women want the security that comes from a stable and loving relationship. PBW don't bond with income and professional titles, they want to bond with a man. 3. What does it say about a man that views an educated and successful woman as unattractive as a potential mate? I think as a man when you're secure in your manhood and have a positive self-image, you don't view your woman's accomplishments as threatening. Alot of men have issues of low self-esteem, a lack of confiedence and they're imprisoned in self doubt and it's hard for them to deal with successful BW because of feelings of shame for not being the best that they could. On the military post were I work I utilize the Transition Assistance Program, the counselors help with prepairing resumes and job serch assitance for departing soldiers and veterans. I'm always updating my resume and I've been working with a BW named Regina and one day over lunch she told me that she notices that most BM are hesitant to ask for her assistance and she asked was she doing something wrong and I had to explain to her that it wasn't a problem with her but with us (BM). She ask why did I feel so comfortable with asking for her assistance, I said, "I know she's qualified to do her job and I have no hang-ups about dealing with competent PBW. You're not ashamed or embarassed when you go to your doctor because you don't have a MD degree, you're grateful they have that degree and can help you!" Why be intimidated by a proffesional women when she can be benefit you, if you'd only allow her to?

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  41.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 26 Oct 09

    WHURR- LOL, your out of control!

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  42.   WHURR says:
    Posted: 25 Oct 09

    @ NOPLAYER Great story about your friend sterotyping the woman getting out of the 'Rover'. I had a very similar experience from this site. On the date, she rolled up in a brand new Escalade and came out with a very hot looking red, leather dress. Her heels and strut made her look like a stripper...oops ... I mean dancer. Being the typical jackass that I am, I immediately started wondering 'What club does she dance at?'. My mind is full of stupid stereotypes, just like your 'friend'! I got my answer to that question during dinner... Black Gold in Miami !! Hmmm...Buy One Disease Get One Free... NEXTTTTTTTTTTTTT! I bathed in Purell Hand sanitizer and scrubbed with Brillo and pumice stones for weeks. All that and all she did was sit 3 feet from me! Dang, I need to get my hygenic OCD clinically evaluated. What does this have to do with the topic?? I have no friggin' clue but my ADHD kicked in and its 2:55AM. Since my therapist is away on vacation, I just figured I could use you guys. NO golddiggers need apply please. I'm broke! I feed my kids Chef-Boy-Ardee (Walmart brand actually but they don't know that) and tap water that taste like my refrigerator. If they are good, they get those great tasting ice(meat)cubes. Damn baking soda is like 33 cents a box. At least the cubes have some taste and might even have all the Food and Drug Admin requirements for a healthy meal! Any women interested in a broke 'non-golddigger-ish' male? I need like an 'aluminum-digger' chasing me...hell ... maybe even 'stainless steel-digger'. Thanks for helping me with my therapy. I just saved the $25 co-pay. WHURR

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  43.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 25 Oct 09

    You know I appreciate your honesty. It's pretty sad that professional women are often at the bottom of the totum pole in dating. Being a professional Black woman puts you even further down. I refuse to stop striving for more to have someone. I want someone who wants to get in the trenches and build something together. It sucks being single, but I have faith that there is someone who is equally ambitious as me.

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  44.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 24 Oct 09

    @ takinitall Let there be no doubt, if a man trully loves you he will make sure you're taking care of. A good man if he feels he cant adequately propvide for a woman will avoid starting a relationship with her because his pride wont allow him to. This is why alot of sucessful sisters have a hard time attracting men that don't earn as much, it's not that they don't want these women but it's emotionally castrating to alot of men when they cant provide for the women they love, so it's easier to avoid starting a relationship in the first place than to feel like a scrub. Keep in mind that women have been so degraded and partrayed as gold-diggers and scheming sex pots, and so there's an attitude towards women that leads men to believe you have to get over on women before they gets over on you. Alot of this twisted thinking comes from a deep rooted insecurity and jealousy that alot of men feel because of the advancement that women have made in term of careers and income. I had a coworker remark, "damn, who is she fu@king" when he saw a well dressed woman step out of a Range Rover. I saw the look of disgust and scorn in his face for this woman. I askd him, "if you were married wouldn't you want your wife to walk out the house everyday looking as good as she did and be able to say with pride that you make that posible", he replied "hell yeah!" In his mind this woman's fine clothes and nice car had to be attached to her laying up with some man, regardless if she was married to him or not. He just could bear the thought that maybe she was an educated woman that went to work everyday and earned what she had. This woman appearance of sucess had to be tied to some man because if it was of her own efforts it was suspect. At the root of his hating was the fact that he wanted a beautiful woman like her and wanted to be able to provide her with nice clothes and a car but for one reason or another he couldn't, so he was mad! It was easier for him to dismiss her as a gold-digger than to deal with his own feelings of inadequacy. I told him your line of thinking is no different than police who pull you and me over because we drive nice cars and happen to be BM. I told him it's no different than them thinking," they must be drug dealers or the car is stoling!" This anger, jealousy and feelings of inadequacy lead men to feel they can elevate themselves by stepping on women and I had to explain to my coworker that this is the same thinking of sick racist people. Needless to say this guy needed and check up from the neck up and I gave it to him, hey that's what friends are for! LOL

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  45.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 24 Oct 09

    @ No Player I totally agree with women bragging about getting over on men. I feel the same way about men trying to get over on people. My feeling has allways been don't expect a man to do for you what you can't do for yourself. Using people is wrong no matter what or who does it. But men have to be real and understand that they will have to come out of pocket for a woman. I guess my frustration is coming from a different place. I have met men, who I feel are trying to get something for nothing. For example they want to come over your house or vice versa rather than going out. On the flip side I have met men who are great people and can step up and lead with confidence and have no problem sharing. a man should be able to stand on his own and not ask a woman to carry him. Call me old fashion, but I feel we have gotten away from our old fashioned values and our families have suffered.

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  46.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 19 Oct 09

    @ takinitall - When I aksed the question why PAY a woman for something that she's willing to GIVE, I was referring to men who think they can buy a woman's love and respect. My desired to provide for a woman is based on how well she treats me, I'm not talking about how often she'll sleep with me, these old LAY-UP women come a dime a dozen. I'm talking about a woman that carries herself with class, shows that she wants to be a wife and a good mother and has a devotion to family. I'll work three jobs, beg / borrow / steal (LOL) for a woman like that. Why do guys think if they spend money on a woman she's a gold-digger or he's a sucker? Women are to blame for this one! If you have a man doing for you, even if you're not in love with him, you don't sit up in the beauty shop and put his business out in the street. If a man is playing the fool for a women, he damn sure don't want the whole neighborhood to know about it! It's now perceived if a man is taking care of a woman he's tricking and the woman is pimping him, yes things have gotten that bad! LOL At one time men measured themselves by how well they took care of their women, now things is so screwed up, some men measure themselves by how well a woman takes care of them! WTF !!!!!!! It has turned into a battle of who can get over on who first and get the most!

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  47.   32bookworm says:
    Posted: 17 Oct 09

    It's not what you make, it's what you keep. Some people with a high income may not have a high net worth. A few ex-wives, destructive habits, expensive hobbies, designer outfits, new cars..... can beggar someone whose income puts them in the upper middle or upper class income strata. That being said, women since that dawn of time have always looked for security in a potential mate. It used to be that those with the strongest genes, i.e. muscles, keen eyesight to hunt, etc were considered the best mates because physical protection was paramount. In modern society, the wealthiest are the most secure, live longer, healthier, etc. Most women are now well aware of the income disparity that exists in our society. Women are graduating from higher institutions with more degrees than men, yet we still lag in every way when it comes to income, assests, etc. When the majority of marriages break up, women almost always get full-time costody--with comes with the lion's share of expenses for raising children. With all of these issues, is it any wonder women still see "marrying up" as the quickest and most secure solution for financial security? It's all in one's definition and interpretation of "security". Unfortunately, because of a myriad of reasons, in my opinion, the cards are stacked against this option for most AA women. It's also my opinion that a lot of women confuse outward displays of wealth with security. That escalade some dude drives may just as easily be leased and the guy can afford it by having 5 roommates! Ladies we have to be smart. A man who is a good provider with strong morals and a modest lifestyle hands down is a better pick. He's just not pouring a lot of money into advertising. Personally, I desire someone who has a secure foothold in life. I don't want to enter a relationship with someone who is saddled with debt, no assests, no education, 3 ex-wives all with alimony and child support, several baby-mam's cluttering up the picture having legitimate financial claims, etc. That's real. I'm not bringing any issues like that to the table. But I don't think that translates to "gold-digger" status. But on the flip side, I know that narrows my choices of AA men. That's why I date interracially. It's much more important for me to be someone with similiar goals who will not be an added burden in my life. I'm an educated homeowner, and I believe my mate should share my same values, and some financial ones that I have are saving for a rainy day, retirement goals, etc. When I meet someone, I like to REALLY get to know him before I make snap judgments about their financial "health"--you could say. And this is just one of the areas I'm looking at. I know plenty of people who make modest incomes, but because of lifestyle, are more secure than a lot of "rich" people. It's all about priorities, self-control, goals, values, family history...I could go on.

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  48.   takinitall says:
    Posted: 16 Oct 09

    @ No Player Do you remember in a previous post your wrote "your wife is your partner not your competitor" or something to that effect in regards to financially secure women? That one statement you made long ago had a profound and powerful message to me. Just because a woman makes more money doesn't man she is unable or shouldn't submit to her partner. Submission goes beyond material things it's about trust and respect. A woman has to feel secure enough in her partner to allow him to take the lead. You're right many men are not able to lead for whatever the reason may be. As far as why pay? Why not pay if you want and love this person? I personally feel that if a man loves you he will put your needs ahead of his own and he will take care ofyou to the best of his ability. Being selfish and cheap only tells the womanhe doesn't careor is trying to get something for nothing. Guys who set out not to spend are usually the easiest ones to get played, because in his mind he's getting over. Men who are humble and able to say I wish I could do that for you, but right now I can only do a portion get more respect and love. Why do men think because they spend money you are goldigging or they are suckers? Although I'm sure they exist, I don't know any woman who will sleep with a man who does not do somethiing for her; rather it's dinner, shopping, movies, rent, car, etc. it all takes money.

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  49.   hazelpride says:
    Posted: 15 Oct 09

    Wow, well said NOPLAYER.

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  50.   NOPLAYER says:
    Posted: 15 Oct 09

    @ takingitall If I cant afford to pay for both of us to eat chicken, I'll put off taking you out until I can afford it! LOL (I here ya!) I agree some of us got things mixed up. Men have been the maintainers and providers for women since day one, it's got be coded in our DNA. The sad thing is men have used the fact that women relied on them for that support as a means of CONTROL, "do what I say or go kill your own deer, build your own hut and defend yourself from the wild animals, the two and the for legged ones!" That dependancy made it necessary for the woman to be somewhat humble, submissive and make the man feel powerful as a means of inspiring him to continue to provide for her. Now that the times have changed and many women due to their ability to provide for themsleves no longer feel that they should have to be humble and submissive and this is a turn off for alot of men. Men instead of learning how to have a woman respect and submit to them by making themselves WORTHY of it, they've relied on the old caveman tactic of using the woman's vulnerability as a means of controlling her. Now that women are more self-supporting than any other time in history that old method of control is gone and never to return. Until mean learn to give up the need for control and learn how to manage their relationships based on: understanding, tolorance, leadership and a better system of self-management they'll always try reverting back to the old caveman methods and it wont work. For men who think they can buy a women's respect and love, once again you've been tricked! She'll drive a Benz if you buy her one, she'll spend your money if you give it to her and she'll live in a penthouse if you move her into it, naturally! The true love, honor and respect that all men long for can and will only come when men learn to govern themselves, lead from their intelligence and not their fist or by degrading a woman to a state that makes it easier for him to control her. Once again, "why PAY a woman for something that she's willing and able to GIVE, when all men have to do is learn how to get it from her!" It's so easy when you understand!

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