Biracial and hating the other side

Posted by Ria, 15 Dec

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This is a Tyra show video about biracial women who hate one side of their racial composition or the other.

Most biracial people find themselves struggling with identity. What am I? Black, White, Hispanic? And more often than not, they also get caught up in families, especially their grandparents, rejecting them for being biracial or having a tinge of the other race. Society also does this to them. I remember when Vanessa Williams became the first woman of African American descent to be crowned Miss America, most Black folks said she did not represent them. She wasn't Black enough.

This video brings out some really interesting issues about multiracial identity, intra-group struggles and complexion issues. Having watched the video, do you think society plays a big role in pushing us to hate who we really are? Should we excuse these biracial women's hatred for hating the "other side"?

94 responses to "Biracial and hating the other side"

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  1.   Red says:
    Posted: 24 Dec 08

    uhh...I think this thread has gotten way off-topic. This is not a discussion about the one drop rule. The gist of the "discussion" is about hating (not ignoring) a certain part of your heritage irrespective of how one identifies.

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  2.   Julianna says:
    Posted: 24 Dec 08

    Salsassin (I can't even write that with a straight face!!) - you have a lot of nerver talking about someone's comprehension ability or getting hooked on phonics. Perhaps if you spent a little more time studying for the bar exam than spreading your prophecies online...well, you know where I'm going with this... I'm just sayin'.

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  3.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 24 Dec 08

    Agreed honest. It just irks me when people want choices for themselves but try to shove an identity for others. I was cordial until juliana, lala(and her alterego grrr) and bintin started posting personal attacks. I tend to cop an attitude when people post asinine posts.

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  4.   honest says:
    Posted: 24 Dec 08

    The level of animosity in this thread is really beyond comprehension. Everyone here is an adult so why not discuss this issue like reasonable adults instead of reverting to ad hominem attacks? According to both the video and the title of the article, the point of this discussion was to address the issue of people who hate one side of their racial makeup. Choosing to ignore one side is not the same as hating it. In either event, people have to find the side of the coin that fits their life and presumably, hate should not be acceptable. Even if the perspectives in the U.S. differ from those of the rest of the world, why should we expect people to immediately adopt a different ideology? When in Rome... Bringing different ideas to the forefront is great because it challenges people's beliefs and hopefully allows them to grow. However, when those ideas are coupled with put downs and disrespectful language how can anyone expect to grow or learn? This is a site that is geared toward people who presumably are at a point in their lives where they are able to free themselves from certain racial restrictions. With that being the case, why is it that this topic is generating so much negativity?

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  5.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 24 Dec 08

    Just look at how people reacted to Tiger Woods when he chose to identify as mixed. And tell me there is no cultural assumptions towards identifying as Black. GTFOH!.

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  6.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 24 Dec 08

    More stupidity as usual. I am half White Half Latino. Your point? And My Dad is tri racial, that included Black. Again your point? I know you didn't read it all because you have no comprehension power. Right to choose. That means you could choose to be black as well. But you are to stupid to notice that. Jim Crow affects you through you parents stupid. You were raised by your parents who influenced your identity. IN other places, people may choose to identify as Black, White or Mixed. in the AA community because of Jim Crow, the group has a lot more people who have a mixed look, so it is easier for someone to accept a Black identity. The Black community in the US has a history of many people doing exactly what you describe. Not fully accepting people who look mixed but getting angry if claiming something else. Now go get hooked on phonics.

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  7.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 24 Dec 08

    The first part of my post that never made it. To bintin: If I don’t look European in my avatar, I don’t know who does. I think bintin’s age is showing. Maybe she needs glasses or pills for the dementia if she thinks I look like a “light skinned Negro” as she states. Further more, she needs to get an education as I posted both my comments and I also quoted that of my Dominican friend. I identify as Creole. He identifies as Indian. And not from India. Taino, Native American. ht(remove this)tp(colon)//(three double u’s).centrelink(dot)or(remove this)g/TestimonyC.html ht(remove this)tp(colon)//(three double u’s).centrelink(dot)or(remove this)g/JorgeEstevez(dot)jp(remove this)g He does not deny his African roots. But like African Americans choose to identify their African side as primary, no matter their level of mix, ala Walter White from the NAACP ht(remove this)tp(colon)//en.wikipedia(dot)or(remove this)g/wiki/Walter_Francis_White ht(remove this)tp(colon)//(three double u’s).georgiaencyclopedia(dot)or(remove this)g/media_content/m-5972(dot)jp(remove this)g Jorge chooses to identify as Taino, Indian. He is easily accepted as Indian and I am easily accepted as Germanic. Although I do not identify as such. I identify as Latino. Tell me what the average admixture is in Nigeria? I could care less what your admixture is. Where were you raised? What cultural experience did you have? A few points about the US. And these will address the claims by silly little lala2qz, as well. The US had Jim Crow which just ended about 40 years ago. Anyone living here a generation ago who did not live in isolated communities (I’ll get to those people in a moment) was forced to identify as Black if they had any African ancestry. After a few generations, it is natural for African Americans to all identify as Black. So silly little lala2qz, is obviously within the norm of her community even though Jim Crow ended. She is still part of the effects of it. Before Jim Crow you had communities that did not identify as Black that were very prominent like the Creoles. Gens de Colour, Mulattoes, etc. Even to this day you have Afrodescent groups in the USA who do not identify as Black but are still proud of their African heritage among others. Again, it is a bout choice. SO LONG AS SELF HATE IS NOT INVOLVED. ANYONE THAT HATES THEIR BLACK SIDE OR THEIR WHITE SIDE OR ANY OTHER SIDE HAS ISSUES.

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  8.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 24 Dec 08

    Let me address the stupidity. To Juliana: Get a clue. You think "sisters" are the only mixed people? And actually, a lot of my opinions come from talking to "sisters" as well. So get the authority plug out of your ass and get a clue. To grrr: I am mixed as well. If you had a clue on how to read you would notice that I stated self identity is what matters. In ther words, if you want to identify as Black, great. If you don't, that is fine as well. It is hypocrites like you who are the problem. You want to have your choice but tell others not to identify as they choose. Get a clue. I never said Jim Crow is the only reasn. But it is a major factor in creating the African American community as it is today. Feel free to show me any other community in the Americas that one drops. Only the Caribbean ones that are predominantly African. No where else in the Americas would someone like Alicia Keys only be seen as Black. They wouldn't deny her mix, but they would not only focus on one identity. It would be her choice to choose which group she identifies with.

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  9.   Situations says:
    Posted: 23 Dec 08

    I think the problem that these biracial people are expressing is a dislike of what they perceive to be the culture of one of their parents' races. The good news is there is a great deal of cultural homogenization going on thanks to the evolution of the mass media. Aspects that black and white culture have in common like aspirational materialism, hedonism, superficiality and identification of social status based on financial success have "transmogrified" into the dominant facets of mainstream culture generally. Whether you watch CMT, BET, or MTV or any of the other Viacom networks the truth is clear: We really aren't so different after all, we all like to look good, party, and get that money. Actually that is an exaggeration, I don't think they have transmogrified so much as have been promulgated by the corporate media. So if I have biracial children (which seems likely) then when they grow up there probably won't be any cultural differential to foster self-hatred, but I don't think they'll be any better off with the unified culture that seems to be emerging. We are trading off racial conflict for a debased culture which doesn't reflect the dignified aspects of the African, European, and Native American cultures of our ancestors. If we could unify based on these cultural proclivities, then we could respect each other's heritage while respecting ourselves.

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  10.   Julianna says:
    Posted: 23 Dec 08

    Okay, first off..."Salssasin?!?!?!?!" WTF. Second, when did you become the foremost authority on the "sisters?". Very strange. Haven't you learned your lesson on the other websites? Third, dude, there is nothing "latino" or "hispanic" about you (- know, b/c *I* am!!). You're adopted. Get over it. Your family loves you just the same. Fourth, I'm on to you. You WILL go down!! That is all. I have spoken.

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  11.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 23 Dec 08

    Just look up Jackson Whites, Melungeons, Lumbees, Redbones, etc. These ‘triracial’ people can have people in each family that look more African, more Indian or more European. So why would they claim only Black? Heather Locklear is a Lumbee. I never heard anyone calling her Black? Secondly, African Americans, while indeed mixed, are nowhere near the level of admixture of the Dominican Republic. The vast majority of Dominicans are triracial and are not just 80+% African ancestry. Shoot, just look at the averages in the US. about 83% African and 17% European per capita as a national average of African Americans. Almost zilch Native American contribution in most African American populations. Compare that to a study in the DR that showed populations with Diabetes with 64% African ancestry (Not 80+) and other populations without Diabetes with 52% Native American ancestry and only 39% African ancestry. So why should they just claim Black? No Jim Crow and no preponderant African ancestry for many. Lala2qz should also get a clue and learn that West Indians migrated to many Latin American countries for work. Considering the fact that places like Jamaica have about 92% African ancestry in their national average, It is no surprise that their descendants in Panama and the DR, in places like San Pedro de Macoris identify as Black. There identity was Black before they got there. Same goes with the Americanos, African Americans who migrated to Samana, DR. Or many Dominicans of Haitian descent. Many Dominicans who are not descendents of recent migrations of predominantly African islands, do identify as Black, but the vast majority identify as mulato or indio. Mixed. And their DNA and culture shows it has nothing to do with denial. And no, the whole world is not mixed. 2/3rds of White America showed no African admixture whatsoever. 1/3rd showed levels of admixture that where average 5% African. Not that big a contribution. So it is you who need to get a life. Why is this important to this site? Because it is Americans with their particular brand of myopia, who are trying to go to other cultures (notice the whole selection of races/ethnicities) to intermarry. And it is kids like me or other mixed children who are born. And we have to deal with the clash of cultures when one side says, the kid is Mixed, White, Indian, Black, Human, etc. depending on each parent’s culture and the experience of the kid. So if you are mixed and grew up as Black. That is fine. I am glad you are a part of your community and it is a beautiful one. But if you are riding others for being accepted in other communities that are not Black, and not identifying as Black, get off your high horse. Your little tunnel vision view of the world is not the end all of how people identify themselves around the word, nor do they have to go by your narrow parameters. So long as self hate and denial of ancestry is not involved, people can choose to identify with any ancestral group they come from and in which they are accepted. And I’m glad you are hit on in the 60+ age range. My dad is 20 years older than you and still gets hit on by women my age. Your point? Now to address some more of silly little Lalaland’s comments. You clearly are the exact negative of the girl who identifies as White. Again, I was not defending her particularly as she obviously had some self-hate issues. But apart from her dislike of Black people, she has every right to identify with the White side, just like you have a right to identify with the Black side. You obviously hate the white side in you as you don’t want to have kids with a White person. Who is the one with self-hate? LMAO!! Now you DEFINITELY are in the wrong site. Even if you date Native Americans as well. You are obviously full of self-loathing for one of your ancestral sides. SO you hating on the girl in the video is completely hypocritical. Again, did she deny she was part Black? No. She said she had issues with that side. You are dumb if you think looking mixed is just about skin color. She doesn’t look like she is African. She looks African American because African Americans are mixed. She also looks like many Afro-Latinas. And many do not identify as Black. Yes, it is rarer for darker people of mixed ancestry to identify as White. Most identify as mixed or Black. But it is not unheard of. Especially in Places like Puerto Rico where a reverse one-drop rule was in effect. So again, don’t ASSume. Sorry bub. I am not a multicultural White. I am mixed. White is but one of my ancestries. I am not in denial like you. You can consider yourself Black all you want. You are a product of the African American culture. Thus the Black identity. That is your right. And the girl in the video has a right to identify as she chooses as well. Your pipsqueak talk is entertaining, bring it on.

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  12.   pattt says:
    Posted: 23 Dec 08

    on the inside we all look the same

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  13.   babe_4_u says:
    Posted: 22 Dec 08

    Hi all, its interesting to read these articles concerning races and racism. I think the issue of one's colour matters much more if their self esteem is low otherwise as a person I think one's character and contribution to making this wonderful world better should be paramount. I should also say this, I am black and I have a son who has white blood and oh!!! how I love this cutie...I think mixed blood people really look cute....

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  14.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    Oh yeah, the biggest point of the US dichotomy. If it weren't an issue, this site wouldn't exist. In Latin America we just go outside and date who we want. African looking, European looking, Asian looking, whatever. We don't have as many hang ups as people here. El que no tiene de inga tiene de mandinga. Y tu abuela donde esta? You on the other hand hate a part of your ancestry. No matter that there where a ton of interracial marriages back then as well. In fact, 40% of the European ancestry in African Americans comes from White women, not men. So who is in denial?

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  15.   lala2qz says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    lol, i had to get some friends to laugh at that with, you said Jim Crow, hahahahaha. my friend Heriberto even hinks that's hilarious when he read everything. (He's a proud Dominican by the way) Let me update you on some things, younger people(at least where I've lived) such as myself don't believe or are even forced to do anything by one droppism, some don't even know what that is. JIM CROW..... Is that a person? is he alive? I honestly don't know or care. I'm black(neither of my parents are from Africa), and I was never forced to claim that I'm black, I jst love to identify with that. Ask any of my bosses when they ask me what I am, I say black, not mixed, it's by CHOICE.

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  16.   lala2qz says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    lol, its all so funny how you specifically say self identity, when the topic is CLEARLY about the subject of denial. Funny,you negated your own argument. One droppism? OMG, dude, I'M 19!! LOL. That so does not affect me, you're like half a century behind, I never lived that.

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  17.   lala2qz says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    what are you talking about? IM MIXED, but I'm very proud to be BLACK. That's all I identify with, I do the inverse of what the specific people she is talking about do. I didnt see the word "ALL" The people she speaks of hate or deny the black in them, I love it in me. I never said there was anything wrong with identifying with one part of you, it was about denying that the other part exists. So ummm.. come again please. And though I dont relate to the Latin or any other roots in myself, my family members and CLOSE friends that are can attest to that. People I've supposedly talked to? These are people I've known for quite a bit of my life. I'm from a younger generation of people and we are way more open. All that you wrote was for what? The face the first girl in the clip sees is NOT mixed, that's a black face. An undeniably black one at that. She just wishes that it were white or as she said "even if I were just lighter". Affects me and not her? haha, obviously it's taken its toll on her. Me and her are both born and raised American, and it affects me less because I was praised on my skin growing up(except for a few black girls, but jst as many liked it), never had any bad experiences in school like she did, and didnt have to choose. Many of my hispanic friends don't even think of me as black, they see me as a mutt until I make a big deal out of it. I chose my lifestyle and what I embrace on my own. Like I said, this wasn't about what you choose to identify with, but denying the other part exists or hating it. So your argument is invalid, sorry. Besides, if this were about choosing to identify with one part of yourself, I still wouldnt care, I don't ever in life claim my other half, would never want to, don't even want my children to. wanna talk about that, for awhile I didn't even want to have a child with someone who was gonna have my child looking like a white puerto rican and speaking spanish. There was a time I would have never considered a white guy cause I'm mixed and chances are that my baby would be white, and the idea of having one sickened me. I would only date black, asian, and native amercans. is that the best way to think? No, I know i shouldnt have, but many people think that way, just switch it around a little. ANYWHO..... I simply said it's true for quite a few, didnt even condemn anyone. Why would I care or criticize if that were what I meant when I'm more than likely far worse than many? look at you the 'multicultural' white guy trying to be pc and sound well informed to this multicultural(directly mixed)BLACK(i dont consider myself african american mister)19 year old. LOL. trust me, you'd be so much better off ending it now. I'd only give you a head ache.

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  18.   bintin says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    Congratulations to Salsassin,the actual latino of mixed ancestry,who thinks he looks straight germanic!.Although Dominican republic had original natives who were Indian looking before the african slaves were brought there,It will be nice to know if he will be accepted as a brother in India and a German among Germans.I am sure most people will look at him as a light skinned negro,with the africa in their mind.I dont think he realises that a lot of africans were mixed with the whites and arabs and even germans during and after slavery but they dont dwell on the subject'look my grandfather was scottish and my grandmum was arab'In fact there are some areas even in Nigeria where the natives'grandfathers came as sailors and left their breed there.Why Salsassin should go on and on about the subject in this site,baffles me.? I am black,I am from Nigeria,my paternal grandmother was half scottish,and there is also german blood in me but I dont go on about it.Please Salsassi ,get a life!Nobody really cares whether you are mixed or not,the whole world is mixed.Even white people claimed they emmigrated from Africa. Concerning the fair skinned girl who thinks that black girls discriminates against her,she should see it as compliments because they must be jealous of her beauty not necessarily because she is lighter but must be because they thought the whole of her body is prettier than theirs.Girls are usually jealous of the beautiful girl whether is their own race or not.Years ago Elizabeth Taylor remarked in an interview that she get left out of parties by her friends.She was a threat to them because of her beauty. No matter what colour you are,you can be beautiful.I am black and I always get chatted up by Indians,white,Arabs,Black etc.I am 64years old and I am still beautiful. So not all black girls discriminate against the fair ones.I dont.All my nieces are fairer than Salsassin and I love them dearly.I have never had them say to anyone that they are half germans not africans. Let Peace remains.LOL

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  19.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    Thank you. A very good friend of mine is getting divorced from this guy who met her in the DR. When she came to the US, she kept on here him say negative things of Blacks. She told me: "Why the hell did he marry me then? I come from Blacks as well." "Yo tambien tengo de negra" She did not consider herself Black but she did have pride in her ancestry. In fact, if you go to the Dominican Museum of History, you are greeted by three statues, Enriquillo, the Indian, Bartolome the Spaniard and Lemba the African. The threepartite identity of the DR.

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  20.   MochaMami says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    CNN7@ Sweetheart I'am a BLACK WOMEN who's mix with DOMINICAN REPUBLICAN and I consider myself dark skinned..most of us do NOT consider or trying to make ourselves blend in with the European race. So please don't judge us all because of an Ignorant myth some else exposes PS- Think before you speak!

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  21.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    Well said, Kat. I agree there is an element of colorism in the DR. I just don't like the, I am hollier than thou type posts where people throw stones in glass houses.

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  22.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    Oh I agree. Denial of ancestry is foolish be it European, African or Native. But doesn't mean they have to identify with the culture or make it their identity. I do agree that it is wrong when it is self hate of a part of you. But it is normal to identify more with the side you have interacted more with.

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  23.   Kat says:
    Posted: 21 Dec 08

    Wow, ppl sound angry. First off, why does Tara Banks have a show? Second, I hate to say this but to be racist or shun away from someone because they are different is part of being a mammal/human. It's human nature. Irish vs English, Japanese vs. Chinese. Region vs. Region in the same country. Jewish vs. Catholic vs Muslim. To hate has been part of the human race for centuries and its not going away. Especially in America, where you see a little of everything. This makes it more difficult to identify ppl w/o asking. Ppl are narrow-minded plus you would need a guidebook to list all possible race/skin color/background/ nationality of everyone just in this country. You’re bound to offend someone. It’s not necessarily intentional tho. Dateline or 20/20 had a special about ppl having a look alike across the world, sometimes of different backgrounds. You hear of two whites having a dark skin baby and fraternal twins resembling two different races. It’s the magic of genetics. No one is of pure race unless you can track your family to the beginning of time. Most black ppl don't know their ancestries due to colonization and slavery. I'm a proud Haitian. I've been told I'm too light to be Haitian. My paternal gmo is part Arawak Indian; my maternal great grandparents were half German. I have some French somewhere. Haitian slaves are allegedly from the old upper guinea area of Africa. Damn what will my kids look like. My grandfather is sure my ancestry is Somalian because of my eyes. My half brother asks me why are my eyes not a regular brown. Huh. At the end of the day, I’m still human. Thirdly, I don't know why ppl want to deny especially in the black community that skin color is not a factor. In Haiti, light skin or preferred over dark skin. Same in America and in Africa nations. In DR, they called dark Dominicans.. Haitians. This is negative not positive. We live in a Euro-centric society and education is still Euro centric. They splattered their influence on the entire world. What do you expect? Of course ppl will compare themselves to white people. You go through school looking at white ppl in textbooks and celebrate blk hx in February, Hispanics one month. I don’t think there is an Asian or Indian month. Is there? As a kid, you end up asking yourself if you belong and try to assimilate in forms of bleaching your skin, coloring and straighten your hair, surgery or denying your ethnicity. No surprises there.

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  24.   Kat says:
    Posted: 20 Dec 08

    Quote from previous post: The truth is that some our ancestors deny having roots in Africa, but we the younger generation know that this is impossible, this was also done because the older Garifuna in St. Vincent (And some still do)looked down on other Blacks for being slaves and didn’t want to be associated with them. Traces of this can still be found in Central America, where Creoles may call a Garifuna a derrogatory name, and a Garifuna will say that at least he has a culture of his own and wasn’t a slave. *************** I think this is the heart of the problem that some people were talking about. The denial of ANY African ancestry in your veins. It's definitely changing now.

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  25.   Kat says:
    Posted: 20 Dec 08

    Quote from previous post: The truth is that some our ancestors deny having roots in Africa, but we the younger generation know that this is impossible, this was also done because the older Garifuna in St. Vincent (And some still do)looked down on other Blacks for being slaves and didn’t want to be associated with them. Traces of this can still be found in Central America, where Creoles may call a Garifuna a derrogatory name, and a Garifuna will say that at least he has a culture of his own and wasn’t a slave. *************** I think this is the heart of the problem that some people were talking about. The denial of ANY African ancestry in your veins.

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  26.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 20 Dec 08

    LOL. That was a direct copy from an email by a Dominican. I did not write it. Try again. A person actually born and raised there. The Panamanian girl is probably of West Indian descent. She does not speak for all Afrodescent Panamanians either. This girl is Half Black, Half White. She is just as much White, as she is Black. If Obama can identify as Black, she can identify as White. WHat stares at her in the face is a mixed face. Maybe the one challenges is you, in the brain. What part of self identity don't you get? Because Jim Crow imposed one droppism on you, you think all people identify as you do? Now the vast majority of predominantly mixed people outside of the US identify with both sides. Unless they are raised in a community that is more Afro oriented or Euro-oriented. By the way, I am an actual Latino of mixed ancestry. I think I have more experience talking about the culture than an African American that claims to have talked to some friends.

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  27.   lala2qz says:
    Posted: 20 Dec 08

    The women speaking of Black Dominicans are right, don't care what that other guy says(who's making way too big of a deal out of it in the first place, it's not that serious), I have way too many Dominican friends who admit to what she says and know it's true. And like... plenty of other Latin cultures recognize that as well. I don't really see how someone can give an actual Dominican perspective when they are not Dominican, your page says Peruvian.. but ummm... ok. anywho, I know the perspectives I know from plenty of ACTUAL Dominicans, born and raised there, white brown and black ones. Have your say, but if you go by being mixed with Dominican, then Caribqueen's perspective counts as an actual Dominican one too. And is all that you wrote necessary? ummm... nope. It's all comparative to that facially challenged Black girl, obviously black but doesn't like it and would rather deny it. even though it stares her in the face everyday she looks in the mirror.

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  28.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 19 Dec 08

    Just because you identify as a Black Panamanian doesn't make all Afrodescent Panamanians Black. Again. Cultural context. Most of the West Indians who migrated to Panama from Jamaica and other islands are much less mixed than many of the Afrodescent Panamanians who have been there since colonial times. I addressed the hair claim for Dominicans in the post that wasn't allowed to post. But you can read it in the link. (By the way, isn't that straightened hair in your picture?

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  29.   cnn76 says:
    Posted: 19 Dec 08

    I'm Panamanian and very proud of it! I eat beans and rice, listen to salsa and merengue and all that good stuff. But don't get it twisted I am BLACK! Dominicans are always trying to identify themselves with anything other than black. I do have a few relatives that don't see themselves as black but trust me they are. I relate to both the African American culture and race and Latin culture. Dominicans have severe issues with race because of political leaders and the overall history of the nation (anything considered black is bad, dirty, poor and for that matter Haitian). To this day, the racial hatred towards Haitians in DR is astounding. Why do you think they have so many damn hair salons and cater to a "kinky" haired clientele? Straight hair is good curly or kinky hair is bad. When speaking about Black Hispanics I put Dominicans in their own category. Their racial identity issues run deep and are far more complex then let's say Cubans, Panamanians, Hondurians, Nicaraguans, and even Puerto Ricans.

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  30.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 19 Dec 08

    So how was she automatically Black? She was biracial. You probably have European ancestry. Do you recognize that ancestry? Naw? Then maybe you are self hating as well.

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  31.   jinboo says:
    Posted: 19 Dec 08

    Look on the bright side but not so bright side, the middle eastern chick had it worse. She's was hot slim and slender. Why did Tyra bring that first ugly self-hating Black girl on the show. She has to get her ratings some how.

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  32.   Phoenixfly says:
    Posted: 18 Dec 08

    Wow....people! It's getting heated! From my own experience and in every avenues of my life race has been an issue. I'm dark skin and my mother is fair skin, my great grandfather was Irish on my mothers side and on my fathers side my great grandfather was a very dark skin Haitian. From the time my mother enrolled me in school and it was thought that I was adopted, when I was passed over for jobs or told I didn't look the part, was told I wasn't pretty, and when my children where born....the surprised and relieved faces of the paternal grandparent, to see a light skin grandchild or times I saw cute little dark skin baby, who was pushed to the side in a room with my light skin child...The surprised faces of potential employers, once I came to their offices- my name didn't match my face, I wasn't Shaqueta. - I could go on for days.....race has been a main topic. I read all the comment and was really impressed with all the comment and view points. My point would have to be the issue of color, not really race, even though that is the source of the problem. You can look at the numbers, the statistics and roll it around,send it to outer space and squash it into a billion pieces. If you are a darker complexion (its not a matter of your cultural back round or race) you are thought of in a negative light and of course would be at a disadvantage. Black cats, dark alley ways, shadowy figures,darkness,the dark continent, Dark water, dark meat, a black jacket,black heart, dark comedy, black pits, black people....when you think of the word BLACK; the things that swirl in you head are all negative.I typed in the word "dark" (nothing showed up for the word black) I got my spell check's Theasour; I got the words dim, shadowy, murky, gloom, sinister, mysterious, threatening, evil, depressing, bleak, sad,unhappy, troubled, not trusting; and when I typed in the words "light" and "white", I got words like, fair, glow, bright, luminous, weightless, gentle, fluffy, day light, radiance, graceful, sunlit, sunny, joyful, cheerful happy, easy going, manageable, entertaining, ignite, playful (there was allot more words)....But in thinking of yourself which word would you like to be associated with? And so if you are dark skin you would be considered to be...what? Doesn't take a rocket scientist. As young children we are taught these words and their meanings are carried with us through out our lives. This is where it starts.A person unwillingly looks at a darker/black person and will thing they aren't as pretty, or that the might steal or that they aren't people at all. So to say that it doesn't exist is insane.We have witnessed it for hundreds of years. We do feel that being dark is bad and we look at things that are dark and/or black in a disapproving way. So if you are Spanish,Malaysian, Japanese, Caribbean, Philippians African, Asian,Arab, Mexican,Korean or what ever and have dark skin and feel the difference....I send you all my love...I'm not in denial and it is there. For those who haven't been blessed with open eyes....keep searching, the truth is before you eyes, look in the dark. The first step is admitting that it is here and happening and most importantly that it happened. Can we please hug on that....racism of any kind hurts us all, and prevents us from the peace we could have.

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  33.   stlrapper says:
    Posted: 18 Dec 08

    generally speaking, i think there are alot of ill informed assumptions made when one feels slighted by another and this perpetuates ignorance; for example- i had a guy tell me that he now understands why i never showed any interest in him since he heard that i only like white men, when truth of the matter is he was obnoxious, cocky, and tried too hard so his insecurity was a big turn-off, not to mention the whole "i heard" thing is so juvenile, especially when what he heard was untrue yet he never took the time to simply ask me before coming to an ill informed conclusion then having the nerve to approach me with that non-sense.....its a derivative of what i call the bag-man syndrome which can be eliminated by truly treating each person and situation individually without taking into account past situations with prior ppl... i have always been inquisitive by nature so it amazes me that so many ppl do not try asking someone what is up...because until you ask, you really do not know

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  34.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 18 Dec 08

    And then you have the perspective of many Garinagu. People with substantial African Ancestry. In Honduras, Garinagu are average 76% African, 20% Indigenous and 4% European. On St Vincent they are 40% African, 38% Indigenous and 16% European. Yet while many African Americans see them just as African, many of them do not see themselves in that light. Quote: Our ancestors are Africans, Carib and Arawak and yes the African influence is present in our culture and our physical appearance, but we are not Africans we are Garifuna. My race is Garifuna, the Garifuna race is from St. Vincent not Africa. Yes I have African heritage. I am not denying my African hertiage, but I am not an African nor does anybody in my family consider themselves an African, we are Garinagu. We speak Garifuna not African and Garifuna is basically an Amerindian language. In Belize we are considered an Indigenous group. We are known also as the Black Caribs, who are the Caribs?? They are Indians. The Black comes from the African factor that our skin comes out Black. Now I don't really care if someone doesn't acknowledge what they are mixed with. If Malaika considers herself African that is her deal. I am a Garifuna, I have African in me and have African hertiage, but I am not an African. There may be Garinagu out there that consider themselves African, but I haven't encountered that person yet. And if that is the case hey, we Garinagu should forget our language and start speaking in Swahili, stop dancing Punta, and throw our culture away, forget our name, and call ourselves African just to make everyone else happy. I will not now or ever do that, and for those wondering if I consider myself Black, yes I do. Where the Garinagu where before 1635? They were in St. Vincent as the Red Caribs. The Africans came and mixed with the original Garifuna making us. The Carib and Arawak element can be seen in the musical styles of the Abeimahani and Arumahani which are song acapella, another Amerindian factor is our language, our language is basically Arawak. Of course the African is present in the way we look, (even though the Indigenous is present in many Garinagu), our music and our dance, the Uraga which are stroies as well as the Ananci stories with Call-and-response songs, for the ninth-night wake(beluria) and our religion is a mix of both, but with a heavy African influence. But the Garifuna was in St. Vincent before the Africans came. I recommend the book Sojourners of the Caribbean by Nancy Gonzales this explains this matter in great depth. I asked my uncle if we were Africans and he said we are Arawaks and Caribs that mixed with Africans, but that we don't come from Africa. We come from America and Africans mixed with us. I know and acknowledge the African in me and the African influence in my culture, but I also acknowledge the Carib and Arawak, like James Lovell ( a famous Garifuna singer) said, " When someone says I am a Garifuna they know and recognize that they have Carib, Arawak, and West African blood running through their veins. Our flag has the colors Yellow, White and Black, which means the following: Yellow= the color of our ancestors; White= the peace that in which our people live; Black= The color of our people in other words the African factor. Many Garinagu like me know we have African heritage and that we are black, but we are Caribs, nibuganyan. The problem is that many of us are very much into our own community because we are not understood, and because isolation is how we survived. Now times have changed but much hasn't, but I do feel we need to recognize the African factor, while knowing we are Caribs. The truth is that some our ancestors deny having roots in Africa, but we the younger generation know that this is impossible, this was also done because the older Garifuna in St. Vincent (And some still do)looked down on other Blacks for being slaves and didn't want to be associated with them. Traces of this can still be found in Central America, where Creoles may call a Garifuna a derrogatory name, and a Garifuna will say that at least he has a culture of his own and wasn't a slave. Now things are changing and many of us now we have African, but we can't forget we are Caribs. Calling ourselves just Africans in my view is just forgeting something my ancestors gave their life for, which is us having the right to know we are Caribs too. Garifuna is a seperate from all other races, being black doesn't magically make you a Garifuna, you have to have the African factor and be a Carib too. Seremein Umalali Niyunagu

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  35.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 18 Dec 08

    Let me give you an actual Dominican perspective on why many today see themselves as Native: I took a Bio-geographical DNA test, one that gives percentages of mixture. I tested positive for all three, except that my Indian American Markers were so high that it implied that my ancestors were "pure" up to 5 generations ago. Not bad for a supposedly extinct people! I actually took the test three times because at first I was not at all convinced that such a thing was possible. On my first test which was called the 2.0 DNA print test, my percentages were 29% Indian American, 39% African and 32% Caucasian. It was this first test that confirmed for me what my grandmother always said about our families’ descent. She claimed that her grandmother and all the people of the place I come from in the DR were pure Indians. So since I had 29% Indian that means my mother would have perhaps twice as much and so on. But then I took an updated version of the test, 2.5, which goes deeper into the genome and this one revealed that I was 42 percent Indian. One thing though, I think that as important as the tests are, they are also a bit misleading. I think that Identity is more about culture than genes. The reason why I have always identified with Indian is because of the campesino culture, which is very Indian in the DR. At the end of these tests I am still as Indian as I was at birth. The thing is does confirm however is that our history in the Caribbean must be re-written. That the Taino became extinct 30 years after contact with the Spanish is just about the biggest myth ever created and we in the Caribbean bought that side of the story, hook line and sinker! Two of the biggest if not the biggest opponents of Taino survival are Anthony Stevens Arroyo who wrote "Cave of the Jaguar" and Carlos Andujar ex president of The Museo del hombre Dominicano have in the last two weeks made very supportive statements (actually changed their tunes) regarding Taino survival. In most of the forums where there are these "incredulous" people, most of them are either not informed, or non-academic. I do think that they have the right to voice out their Afro-centric sentiments after all that is also a reality in the DR and the Caribbean. They only fail when they become ultra afro-centric and then want everyone else to see what they believe. The fact is that there are three heritages in the DR and because of this we will always have four identities: (1) There will always be people who identify with the Spanish (2) There will always be people who identify with the African (3) There will always be people who identify with the Indian (4) And last but not least, there will always be people that identify with all three. My point is that they are all equally valid One thing, you would never find an indigenista denying African heritage. It just makes no sense. This thing with "color indio" was actually enforced during Trujillo's time, but people identified with this way before. In fact in comes from the colonial era. During Trujillo's time there were independent studies done on the ABO blood groups by Jose de Jesus Alvarez. He demonstrated that there is an abundance of type O positive blood in the DR, something like 70 percent. Why is this number important? Because type O positive is found only at around 35 percent in Caucasian populations and 4 percent in African populations. So if you have an equal mix of African and Caucasian Type O positive can never exceed 40 percent. That said, Indian Americans, particularly the ones from South America are universally 100 percent Type O Positive. Demonstrating that in the DR there is a substantial other, which of course is Indian. Many scholars in the past have pointed out this study as being flawed and accused Mr. Alvarez of hidden agendas (Trujillo's?). In fact just a few years ago I was at a conference where one of the speakers accused him of being a racist (this study was done in 1948)! DNA has proven that Mr. Jesus Alvarez was right all along. I wonder what people will do with this information. Are we a people unable or unwilling to see the truth? Only time will tell. But for those of us who identify our Taino Indian ancestors, these studies only showed that we were right all along. We were not delusional, racist, etc. We were simply stating obvious facts. Like one woman from Cuba said to me once " Yeah they came to our village in Yateras and did all these tests on us, they measured our heads, looked at our teeth and at the end told us what we already knew, that we are Indian". Now the use of the "Indio" color to describe Dominicans has nothing to do with Indian American identification. These terms were used by the Trujillo government to distinguish Dominicans from Haitians. Haitians were Negros, so the government focused on the other side and called themselves Indios to distinguish. One thing is certain; for those of us who have a tendency to identify with Indian over anything else. I argue that this is due to us having a very real biological, cultural and linguistic connection to our Indigenous ancestors. The terms African, Spanish, Mulato disconnect us from our homelands, rendering us almost immigrants in our homelands. It is the Indian that connects us to our lands and we continue to be Indigenous to Quisqueya. You have to understand that the African and the Spanish are considered the norm. It is the Indian genetic component that is always in question. If you begin to ask a hypothetical question: Are there substantial Indian American genes in the DR? The Answer is Yes. To look for Spanish or African is absurd because we ALL know that its there. Do you realize that up to a short time ago many academics erroneously claimed that the reason why some Dominicans looked Indian was because if you mix black and white in time you get something that looks somewhat Indian! This was an actual train of thought among many academics in the Caribbean. As for the statistics: In the last 30 years there has been a push to Africanize Dominican Identity. So it’s not suspiring that many more identify with negritude. Most of those involved in what I call ultra afro-centric ideals were adamant in making sure that it was African or nothing at all. The indigenistas in our country have never said there were no Africans or African Influence, only that there is Taino as well. The Afrocentrics take rather unusual stance and claim that if one says INDIAN he is automatically denying Africans. I can’t see the reasoning in this. I can show you pictures of DR's that look like they stepped out of the Amazon! It’s about culture. When one studies the Classic Taino Material culture of the islands, everything from Hamacas, to Casabe, weaving baskets to slash and burn farming down to how, when and where Indian crops are to be planted, bohios, etc and you compare that with the campesino culture of the ciabo for example, its easy to see why Dominicans have strong connection to an Indian past. My problem lies with certain individuals who say the following: (1) There are no Indian genes only Indian cultures left (and very little of it) (2) When the genetics proves the above statement to be untrue, then the counter argument is- Yes there are genes but no Indian culture. As if you can have a strong genetic contribution to population and somehow not pass on ideas, culture, beliefs, etc. The fact that we have at least 800 Taino words that persist in our Spanish today is remarkable, where else in the history of the world have an "extinct people" influenced a culture as much as the Taino? Since I was very, very young I have identified with Indian. Somehow for me it boils down to this: If you mixed Africans and Spanish anywhere else in the world and giving rise to Mulato people, would these people be Quisqueyans and Boricuas or Cubans? Of course not. What makes us a unique people is that we have customs (the above mentioned), beliefs (ciguapas, misterios, opias, etc) linguistic traits that are indigenous only to the Caribbean, rendering us a unique people. If as if by magic we can subtract everything that is Taino from Caribbean culture, would we still be the same Dominicans? One can argue that if you subtract any portion of our multi-ancestries we would not be the same, but one thing is certain, as long as the Taino is there, we will always be indigenous to the Caribbean and not Dominicans by chance. As for claims of self-hate in the Dominican Republic, I found the line of reasoning to be rather laughable that Dominican women straighten their hair to deny their negritude. Hair straightening with chemicals began in the 50's and officially in the 70's by Revlon. Before that hair straightening was done with hot comes, and this began in the late 1880's. Now check out these excerpts: “So much so that the national complexion of skin and general physiognomic traits may well be described as being alight brown, approaching the copper color of the North American aborigines, straight black hair in the case of the females, glossy and in luxurious profusion and a combination of features resulting from about an equal blending of the African, Caucasian and -Indian physiognomies. The very visible traits of the latter would seem to indicate, although we are not aware of the existence of any other evidence of it, that the aboriginal race instead of having been entirely exterminated, had been particularly amalgamated.” In “The Dominican Republic in the Island of St. Domigue” by S. A. Kendall, page 243, 1849 “The “pure” race wholly died in (Hispaniola) at the latter end of the “last” century; but their characteristic features and luxuriant hair, are still to be traced among their descendants, from intercourse with Europeans, Africans and colored people. These are still called Indios.” In Harper's statistical gazetteer of the world / by J. Calvin Smith; Illustrated by seven maps. Publication date: 1855.Collection: Making of America Books In other words, Dominican women were known for their hair long before there were any hair straightening techniques. That said, why do so many women in the DR straighten their hair? First off, not ALL DR women do. Some do, some don’t. Second its not about denial of race is about aesthetics. More women straighten their hair in Africa than in the DR, are they too trying to deny being black? Also white women dye their hair blond, and I assure you that more of them are using peroxide to dye their hair than DR women using lye to straighten theirs. So what are these white women denying? NOTHING! It’s all about people trying to look better in their own eyes. When a Japanese man perms his hair curly or makes an dreadlock, he is simply making a fashion statement, not a racial one. All these articles are an attempt by Ultra-Afrocentric intellectuals to force people into their own points of view. I would never suggest that all Dominicans with straight hair are Indian. Indian, Black or white are matters of culture. WE as a tripartite people will always either identify with one or all of our heritages. This argument is weak. If Dominicans don’t identify with their African roots as we should its because we have very few African Icons that survived during slavery. Other than Music and religiosity (two strong vehicles for "escaping" the reality of slavery) There is less material culture. Once Dominicans can pinpoint where are African descendants came from, perhaps we can then investigate that part of ourselves. To say that Dominican women are denying their negritude because of the hair thing, begs for another question, if the women straighten their hair to deny their negritude, what do the men do? Or is it just the women! Sincerely, Jorge Estebez

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  36.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 18 Dec 08

    Since when does Dominican automatically mean Black? Here is a small reality check. In a study of Diabetes in the DR, The people with Diabetes tested on average mtDNA: 64% African, 22% Native American and 14% European. In the Non Diabetic population it was 51.5% Native American, 35.5% African and 9% European. In contrast, Cuba tested mtDNA 45% African, 22% European and 33% Native American. And if you really want to pull contrasts, the MOST mixed African American population, in Seattle Washington, has 35% European and 65% African. The national average is around 15-20% European. The last census the DR ever did on self identification, 16% as White, 11% as Black and 73% identified as Mulato. A person of mixed African and European ancestry. So tell me again how they denied their African ancestry? If anything, the denial was of the indigenous side. In contrast, Cuba identified 65.1% White, 24.8 Mulato/Mestizo and 10.1% Black. So tell me again how Cubans identify more with their African side than Dominicans? Cubans may have a stronger African culture. Bt not necessarily the identity. And the DR does have many African descent traditions that are recognized by all. They just don't see themselves in one droppist terminologies. When Dessalines became the dictator of Haiti, he rewrote Toussaint's constitution and stated that ALL Haitians (including the Polish and German deserters who switched sides) where officially Black. Recall that it was Dessalines who led the massacre of mulatos during the War of Knives in Haiti. Also recall that Haiti invaded the Dominican side and soldiers did pillage and rape many people. So there is a bit of historic xenophobia with the term Black as referencing Haitians. But not with African ancestry per se. And much like many African Americans will downplay their European ancestry as product of slavemaster raping (a historical exaggeration as all offspring did not come from rape, marriages did occur, and, in fact, 40% of the European ancestry in African Americans comes from Eurodescent women, not men), Many Dominicans downplay the African part of their ancestry because of the exaggerated importance of those rapes long ago. These tensions would lead to abuses and retaliation such as that of Trujillo who committed his own atrocities. Dessalines and Trujillo where two sides of the same coin. And again, who defines what is Black looking? A culture. What to your eyes, may be Black looking, to others may not. You have provided no evidence whatsoever that Dominicans deny their African ancestry. Is there colorism? Sure. No worse than inside the African American community. Or Jamaica for that matter. Dominicans are not the ones that are putting harsh bleaches on their faces to look like brownings. I have seen the horror stories in Jamaica. I think the DR gets a bad rap unjustly.

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  37. Posted: 18 Dec 08

    Jesus! I just proof read my post after I posted it. It's full of words that I didn't spell correctly and run on sentences. A big "My Bad" to everyone.

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  38. Posted: 18 Dec 08

    While we are on the subject of Latino's who have african blood... I share honeycoated's sentiment about black hispanics but I am able to see the other side of the arguement. For example, my roots are in the West Indies, but mostly in Haiti, with some Dominican and Jamaican. My grandfather (mother's father) is considered a mulatto. his father was French(white), and half Haitian (black), and his mother was half German (white) and half dominican (black)/ So grandfather and all his siblings are fair skinned with "suave" hair and very european features. But he grew up in Haiti which is a black nation. Though he was lighter than most, he considered himself a black man. This is due to his environment. Haitian very much embrace their culture as a people who are for the most part direct descendants of Africans. Now, on the other side of the Island you have the Dominican Republic. Many domincans who are (look black) do not consider themselves black, and I can understand the sentiment to a degree. La Republica Dominicana is far more mixed as a whole than Haiti. Many Dominicans, even the dark ones have mix in them. But what I find interesting is that many of them will deny their black roots. I understand that they identify with their culture (Hispanic) more than their race. In Latin America, the culture is proud. Being Latino is what is important above color; however, how can some of them boldly deny their roots? I'm not saying they have to claim African American because they aren't. Technically, neither am I. But still, the vehement denial of their blackness is appalling. I'd like to go on and say that it's NOT just Dominicans. Other Black Latino's do it too. Interestingly enough, in some Latin American cultures, they blacks accept their "blackness" or "Africaness". For example, black Cubans. Black Cubans not only are aware of their ancestry, but they embrace it...invite it. That is likely due to the differences in their nations history than a country like the DR. In Cuba, the blacks were segregated for a far longer period of time. Mixing of the races wasn't as prevalent as it was in the DR, etc. All those historical constructs (and many more than I am leaving out...Rafael Trujillo comes to mind) have led blacks from one latin nation to one idea of racial/ethnic identify and led another to a totally different idea. Again, I used the DR and Cuba as example. Other nations are not exempt. Sorry if I've rambled...I should have been asleep an hour ago. PS- I want to say that I love Latino's. No problem with my Hispanic people. I date the men too. :)

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  39.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 18 Dec 08

    honeycoatedj, you make a big assumption. You assume races are a factual reality. Black, White, etc. where Eurocentric creations to begin with. I assure you Africans weren't going around calling themselves Black. Many Afrodescent people do not like the label Black. So why should Afro-latinas of Panamanian, Dominican, or whatever have to identify as Black just because you choose to do so? Some do, some don't. That is their choice. The fact of the matter is Afrodescent people in Latin America are much more mixed than Afro Americans and there is no concept of one droppism. So Many people of Afrodescent identify more with a larger group that is mixed in amny degrees, not just an African/Black one. There is nothing wrong with the Black identity, but it is not for everyone, nor is it some type of biological reality they are denying. If they denied they had African ancestry, that would be different. For many, Black is synonymous with African American. And Negro just means dark skinned. So if you are of a medium complexion they won't use it. Different perceptions in different cultures.

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  40.   pisceschica says:
    Posted: 17 Dec 08

    I was indifferent to tyra before she started her show and I don't care for her. As someone stated she just perpetuates stereotypes about blacks more specifically black women. I dont think she or her show does anything for black women but further degrades them the way that society already is. Tyra is great for fashion and makeup tips but she at 34/35 should be more advanced in her topics and interviewing skills. She talks so much about self esteem and being yourself but ever day she has on an overprocessed blonde wig.

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  41.   starthai says:
    Posted: 17 Dec 08

    Just for the record, from reading some of the post, I want to mention I love my dark skin and most of my girlfriends are dark skin too and love their skin as well, trust me the conversation has come up amongst us. I also don't wear makeup, because I don't need to and neither do any of my girlfriends. Whether some lighter skin blacks play on their advantages or try and blame darker skin blacks for not feeling black enough( because this do exist) I still respect anyone with a good character and embrace my fellow sistas as a whole. I don't plan on being absent minded to the facts on disadvantages or advantages with skin shade anytime soon either, knowledge is power and when someone knows better they do better. Mimi you seem like you are in a lot of pain and I'm sorry for that, but as a dark skinned sista myself I'm tired of hearing lighter skin blacks blame their insecurities on darker skin blacks and constantly blaming darker skin of being jealous( mainly amongst the women) when in actuality it may be the other way around. Now these dark skinned females that you came across that were supposedly mean to you may just not be decent people, they come in every shade. To be honest all my girlfriends are dark skinned females(except one she's more of a pecan color) and when we had this same conversation, we all admitted except one, that we didn't like our skin as children for obvious societal reasons, but now as 20 something aged women we see it for what it is and love our skin tones, needless to say there are dark skinned women with long hair and nice hair textures as well. Every black person does not have the same hair texture either. I agree with the dark skin sista on the video, that stated in the media she can't identify with anyone, because there is no representation of her type. Many younger dark skinned females become insecure about their skin shade due to that fact, nothing else. Even though I agree with her observations I have my own take, the more rare something is the more value it seems to have, so I'm not so bothered by it. I wouldn't change the way I look to save my life.

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  42.   hndsmbrian says:
    Posted: 17 Dec 08

    I am from the Dallas, Tx area and have seen over the past 10 yrs, mixed race people moving into and being accepted into some of the more affluent suburbs of Dallas. ie Frisco, Plano, McKinney. I am white. My great grandmother came here from Germany. The average person likes someone because they have preferences not because of their race. The media does try to tell people what is beautiful. We all know that seeing someone on TV or in a magazine ad is probably not what that person looks like in the morning when they get out of bed. Many white girls are tanning and many darker skin black girls are putting make-up to lighten the skin. It is obvious that most guys(most, not all) like the caramel skin whether the girl is black or white does not matter. When dating skin color is a preference. Being real, we all know that the first attraction is physical and if we are not attracted to someone physically the chances of ever getting to know the person is small. When we go to buy a new car we have preferences on what we want. If red is our favorite color we are not going to buy a blue car but if the blue car has more features that we like other than the skin color then we might consider but unlikely. Fighting between races is the most idiotic thing that can be done. White people don't fight or seperate over color but class(monitary). Which is stupid too but that is the way it is. So when all become educated and realize we are all people of God some good things will start to happen. We don't need to judge people on who they choose to date or hang out with because that is their right and preference. I have a preference of nice smooth caramel colored skin but I don't care if the girl is white, black, mexican ect. as long as it meets my preference. I do not even look at race when it comes to people. I am a teacher and coach. I try to teach my kids that racism and prejudice are two different things. I tell them that I am prejudice against idiots, and that being an idiot does not relate to race but only the person themselves. So to the many interracial daters and spouses congratulations you have crossed the line for the better but as we know it will not be easy. So good luck.

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  43. Posted: 17 Dec 08

    I love Tyra, but i have to admit, the show was a mess. I don't know what she was trying to convey to the world ,but, it did more damaged to the black race than anything. I think the whole thing is retarded. A lot of Afro-americans hate themselves. I don't think, knowly. You have Black men hating black women and black women hating black men. If one is lighter than the other they are upset, if you hair is less kinky they are upset, i can go on an on. They really need a reality check and learn to love themselves. Know that being afro-american is a beautiful thing. The problem is, no one wants to be black or identified as being black For example "Hispanic" you have black hispanics like Panamain,Honduras, Dominicans etc these cultures would cut off there right hand to say that they are black. Call me crazy but when did being hispanic became a race. You have your white hispanic and you have your black hispanics. My mom is an Afro-american women and my dad's family is from the Dominican Republic and i can a sure you he was a black man who spoke spanish. People need to stop it and embrace that we all look different. If you have a mixed background be happy and celebrate. In all races and cultures people did great things to contribute to society. We need to realize, beause the lack of love we have for each other is part of the reason why the world is the way it is now.

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  44.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 17 Dec 08

    There are actually advantages to being dark skinned, light skinned, etc depending on context. Look at my picture. Would you even have a clue that I was mixed? My phenotype is European. No one would ever guess that I have African or Indigenous ancestry. Shoot, they even have trouble believing Hispanic ancestry. I look straight up Germanic. If I was darker I wouldn't have had a ton of issues growing up. I had to learn to love myself. I understand perfectly where Mimi is coming from. Many lighter skinned Blacks, are automatically assumed to have an attitude, or to have privileges. So they get discriminated by their own community. And many times, their other facial characteristics are enough to label them as Black so they get discriminated from the other side as well. Just consider this, look at this picture and tell me if lighter skinned women will always have the advantage because they are lighter. http://i34.tinypic.com/qqu6vn.jpg Blame it on the media. Women of all complexions are beautiful. Women of all complexions can be ugly as well. People can have hang ups about skin color, but that is not on you, that is on them. Now some people will place the blame on their skin color, hair type, whatever, and never realize they just might have a facial type that is not appealing to the group they are interested in. And Dark skinned sisters get discriminated as well. All you have to do is look at the media and see who is on most of the posters, or who Black men tend to date. But it really isn't lighter skinned sisters reaping the benefits as much as the medium toned, mohagony/caramel toned ladies who get the most attention with the least amount of finger pointing. Go look at most media and see how many are light skinned, dark skinned and medium toned. So you have dark skinned sisters, wishing they were lighter, and light skinned sisters wishing they were darker. In fact, many light skinned sisters go into the militant, "I am Blacker than thou" syndrome. You know the ones I am talking about, wearing Dashikis, Talking about mother Africa all the time, etc. That is a defense mechanism from not being accepted since childhood as a member of their own community. They are subconsciously trying to prove loyalty to the group. I know a little bit about that as I did the same thing as a kid, trying to out Latino everybody because people didn't automatically see me as a part of the group. Many people of mixed ancestry are forced to pick sides because of this dichotomy. And while the common belief has been that the Black side or other Non White side has usually been more accepting, as White communities have become more embracing, many biracial children are finding that although the Black side claims them more as their own than the White side, on many occasions, the White side might harass them less. So you have some light skinned biracials following the path of the militant light skinned sisters, you have others identifying more with the White side as a lesser of two evils, and finally you have some who want to reform old ethnocultural groups like the Mulattos. Just go to Mulatto.org and you will see what I m talking about. A fourth option has arisen in the states. A lot of biracial children are slowly either migrating to more accepting mainstream communities that are multicultural, or they are affiliating themselves with organizations for biracial/multiracial/interracial people. Not just Black and White, but any mix. Because there, no matter if you are Black, White, Mixed or Hapa, you have common ground. And actually, dark skinned sisters do a lot better in these communities as well as there beauty tends to be more appreciated. When people of other groups go interracial (I hate the term race, but I will use it to define differences in phenotype between ethnicities, no matter how innacurate) they tend to be much more appreciative of the whole spectrum, without the colorism that exists within the Black community. Of course there is even a fifth option. Many people who are not appreciated here migrate to lands, learn the languages, and indigenize in other countries where there beauty is much more appreciated. Places like Brazil, or other places where admixture has been even and thus all groups tend to be more accepting without the antagonism. Colorism exists in many communities around the world, but I have never seen the level of interracial antagonism, across all class lines, that you see in the US. And the vindictiveness intraracially is pretty bad as well. In my country, Peru, the biggest problem is classism as a perpetuation of racism. As there is less class mobility, the upper classes still tend to be strongly Eurasian (note that I didn't say European, only) while the lower classes tend to have all ancestries and don't discriminate because of it. But Mestizaje is still a part of the process and you see people of noticeable Indigenous and African ancestries in the upper echelons as a minority. But a fully integrated one. Once you are in the class, you are fully accepted and don't live separate lives, different communities etc. OK, I went on a tangent. Ultimately, the dichotomy of Black and White introduced in Jim Crow (believe it or not, one droppism and what not was not a part of slavery) has caused a lot of these antagonisms. Forcing people to pick sides. Oh, read my discussion I started yesterday over at the Tyra show after looking at this video: http://community.tyrashow.com/group/guessmyrace/forum/topics/seriously-you-all-beleive-in

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  45.   mimi says:
    Posted: 17 Dec 08

    I feel what the lighter skinned girls feel, you darkskinned girls(as beautiful as your skin may be) can be so mean. why harbor ill feelings for me when the fact that things are the way they are has nothing to do with me? I don't support that, it has nothing to do with me. I'm not stuck up, just like you, I'm human and BLACK. I always wanted darker skin, at least, you've always been accepted as black. I don't like being called a "yellowbone" you want that? "house n*gger" you want that? getting denied that it's your ability and who you are as a person that's made you, but rather your skin? whatever, I know there are some stuck up girls with lighter skin(example:my sister) but if she was dark skinned she'd be the same person. I mean, not like I dont experience what you feel, cause IM BLACK TOO. I've been hated so bad by some people that I've never wronged in anyway, cause of my skin and hair? I'm the sweetest person, but why cant you see that at the end of the day we are both black, why so much emphasis on shade?

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  46.   starthai says:
    Posted: 17 Dec 08

    I agree with everything you just stated Salssasin. On a different note I find it mighty strange how people of my culture act oblivious to the advantages with being a lighter skin black, whether it stemmed from another era, it still remains today, sadly. I 100% agree with the darker skin sista on the video. Also, I've always been aware of the drama within other ethnicities, it has always been downplayed. People have to learn to own their own behavior and then I think it will get better.

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  47.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 16 Dec 08

    Not necessarily. One group's perception of what is "White", "Black", "Asian", "Mixed" whatever might not be anothers. In one culture you might be seen as Black, in another you wouldn't. The Masses vary by region. And yes, White racialists fight over these stupid nuances as well.

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  48. Posted: 16 Dec 08

    There is so much contempt between different asian groups, hispanic groups, and blacks with each other over minute differences. Whether you are Chinese or Japanese, you better believe the masses just see "Asian" and don't care what your specific culture might be. Whether you are Dominican or Panamanian, you better believe the masses just see a "Hispanic". Whether you are dark skinned black, brown skinned black, or light skinned black, you better believe the masses just see a "Negro". So whats the point of fighting amongst yourselves? Being from the Caribbean, when I came here as a little girl, I used to wish I was white like the people I watched on TV. Now as a grown woman, I am proud of not only my race, but also my heritage. My mother told me a long time ago, be happy with who you are, because whether you were white, brown, yellow, etc., people would still find a way to hate you. Here's a question. Do white people fight amongst themseleves about who's the better "breed"? I guess for them it's just about class and money.

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  49.   cnn76 says:
    Posted: 16 Dec 08

    I agree she is kinda corny.

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  50.   Salsassin says:
    Posted: 15 Dec 08

    Can't say I have been impressed with Tyra's "racial" series. She feeds on the stereotypes and it's almost like she is trying to be the Jerry Springer of Racialism. Like that one where she had Black people with obviously predominant European ancestry trying to claim they were of pure African ancestry. I'm mixed, but come on. Guess the race? The woman is an idiot. People can be of mixed ancestry. Different regions. But they are not races. And lots of these kids are confused and need good advice. These are complex issues. And Tyra's butcher job of the issues is terrible.

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